[REQ] SH4 Air Mod

AkbarGulag · 01-29-08, 06:14 AM

As many of you have felt, the aircraft traffic in SH4 stock is fairly insane. After looking about there are some great MOD's that change or alter the way the games aircraft layers and the machines themselves work. Unfortunately all these MOD's also alter a lot more and they all seem to remove map contact updates. If you are like me and don't want to spend 4-5 hours looking for one ship, then you will know these MOD's are not for everyone.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a MOD that is compatable with ROW and 1.4 that could enhance and improve the air dimension?

DavyJonesFootlocker · 01-29-08, 06:55 AM

I use the Airstrike Mod and it helped in reducing the night attacks and number of spawning aircraft. At least that is what I noticed. What I don't like is the plane's flight characteristics. Torpedo-bombers should fly below 200m but they act otherwise releasing their torps too close to targets. Betty bombers even from 2000m will dive bomb and smack right into the water instead of level-bombing. I know this is a Naval sim but aircraft played an integral part in the Pacific war, particularly the carrier-bourne aircraft.

STEED · 02-05-08, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavyJonesFootlocker

I use the Airstrike Mod and it helped in reducing the night attacks and number of spawning aircraft. At least that is what I noticed.

Same here.

I don't see so many of them now.

The General · 02-08-08, 09:15 AM

The code below is from the airstrike cfg file and I believe it is supposed to allow for the spawning of a friendly (aswell as enemy) airstrikes on an enemy taskforce or convoy after you have radioed in spotting one. You will see certain criteria must be met; like you must be within 1500 miles of a friendly airbase and that it must be during daylight and so forth. However for some reason it doesn't seem to work in SH4. The only time I have ever seen a friendly aircraft is when the odd one flies over Pearl Harbour. Surely this is a flaw in the game and can be easily corrected by one of you Mod-masters?

Maximum Aircraft Range=1500
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.5
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.7
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.8
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.9
Elite Airbase Modifier=1
Night Modifier=0.2
Default Air Strike Probability=20
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Radio Messages Sent=20
Friendly Air Strike Probability Increase on Contact Report Sent=70
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=90
Atenuation Factor=10
Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=25

AkbarGulag · 02-08-08, 10:08 AM

Thanks for that General

This MOD is still on the burner. Plenty of resources gathered, with a reasonably clear picture of what has to be done. Lots of mundane stuff to do, but the mundane stuff isn't the challenge, it's the S3D side of things.

Our team of two (including myself

) have almost everything we need. After writing up a few more 'How-to' resource files, we may be able to start making an itinery of all the jobs required. Once we have a clear picture and are able to spell out the exact events we need to put into action, there will be a post here. Most likely looking for 1-2 other people, with at least one person with skill in S3D being required, or even someone we can use as a resource to explain how to use S3D to do the tasks we have planned.

If/When we get to that stage, a WIP will be put in place in these forums.

EDIT: The General, are you saying some of this file doesn't work? or all of it? Because I have not found any other files that could dictate any of these events. Nothing that is easily readable at least...

Also, two lines i'm curious on, "Atenuation Factor" and "Logic Steps Between Air Sessions".

Digital_Trucker · 02-08-08, 10:46 AM

The comments on those variables explain a little and confuse a lot:rotfl: These are from the stock file. Comparing paraB's reduced airstrike file against stock might give an idea of how the variables work.

Total confusion:
Atenuation Factor=10 ;[>0] decrease from an increased probability to default one on each air session

Modifies "Time" between airstrikes:
Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec)

When you're ready to add team members, I'd be glad to do what I can. I have a fair amount of experience with S3D (and getting more every day

).

denis_469 · 01-29-08, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkbarGulag

As many of you have felt, the aircraft traffic in SH4 stock is fairly insane. After looking about there are some great MOD's that change or alter the way the games aircraft layers and the machines themselves work. Unfortunately all these MOD's also alter a lot more and they all seem to remove map contact updates. If you are like me and don't want to spend 4-5 hours looking for one ship, then you will know these MOD's are not for everyone.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a MOD that is compatable with ROW and 1.4 that could enhance and improve the air dimension?

Why not simple place air units from SH3 in it case without reworks?

donut · 01-29-08, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Tater.

Did a few quick tests.

I used an H6K armed with DCs.

It dropped on me at 80ft. Note these were scripted planes.

I was attacked by a few Bettys, but none bombed me. Looks like they didn't have DCs, but they sprayed the water with MG fire.

Looks like we'll want a few new bombs---even make a 30kg and 60kg for the zeke. What I was really thinking was tweaking the air-dropped DC. The stock one has a sink rate of 5m/s, and a det depth of 5m +-5m.

In RL, they had 2 different DC det depths. Make 2 identical bombs, one to each depth, and put 1 of each on the planes.

Quote:
Q. When making an attack on a submarine, were pilots allowed to drop depth charges after the submarine disappeared below the surface?
A. Yes.

Q. How many seconds after the submarine disappeared from sight were they allowed to attack?
A. Within 30 seconds.

Q. What size of depth bombs did your aircraft use?
A. 250 kg.

Q. Did you use any other airborne weapon besides depth bombs?
A. We had nothing besides bombs. The bomb was a standard 250 kg bomb with a modified flat nose attachment and a special tail, a nose and tail fuse was used.

Q. What depth setting did you use?
A. We used 25 and 45 meters. If the submarine was discovered near a convoy at periscope depth and immediately submerged, we dropped the 25 meter; if time passed and gave the submarine time to go to a lower depth, we would drop the 45 meter bomb.

Q. Did you drop more than one depth bomb at a time?
A. Generally we dropped only one, but sometimes two.

Q. When you dropped two, what spacing was used?
A. None, the bombs were dropped simultaneously. Only experienced pilots were allowed to drop all bombs at once.

Q. At what distance from the submarine was it necessary to explode the depth charge in order to sink the submarine?
A. With the 250 kg bomb, it had to hit within 13 meters of the submarine in order to sink it. The smaller planes equipped with 60 kg bombs had to make a direct hit on the submarine to sink it.

So 25m and 45m were the 2 real depth settings. I'd set the depth to that, no or little error. The burst charge on a standard 250kg makes it about as strong as the type 2 with a 162kg warhead, maybe more. In my current DC mod that's ~50% more powerful than the stock DC you are used to. I can make 2 versions, one for stock, 1 in line with my DC mod.

I'll get on this.

My gut says we should BOP clone the maritime patrol planes, then give their basic load DECs in addition to the other loads, then sprinkle a few per appropriate air base.

tater
I'm thinking, visual sensing range of aircraft needs to be reduced

AkbarGulag · 01-29-08, 09:06 PM

Thanks for finding that for us Donut. 45m :O now thats the sort of plane heat im talking about... and to kill within 13m, thats a real bad day for a submariner.

As far as sprinkling these improved sub killers at airbases. Can anything be done to address the frequency of air attacks. One thing I noticed on mission, was that a Kate spotted me but took no action, then it was shortly followed by other planes in the vicinity that actually attacked. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't you take all the gear you needed rather than just spot for someone else ^^ , this is where I think Tater has the right idea.

I see Ducimus has done a fair bit of work on planes in his TM mod, but am loathe to request he unstitch it as i'm sure I know what the answer is

Regardless of that, a dedicated air layer MOD might be a far better idea. If anyone needs me to do monotonous data entry then PM me.

donut · 01-29-08, 09:53 PM

Sailor man

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by donut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurolas
Ducimus you have a severe case of the condition known as "C.T.D" :rotfl:

Long may it continue... even if it does contain the "Evil Ducimus Planes" hehehe

I have spoke of this often,even had thought you Dicimus,had considered my request. Although having not gotten a response, I keep having an epiphany
(your word)
with this feature.
Last patrol,agent insertion to the inland sea,North thru Kii sudio.coming back out

10 ten planes converged on my location at P/D at 2AM,pitch dark,no moon,& bombed ! All she wrote 10 Planes in the same area at 2AM would run into each-other in the dark. This is the two patrols your dead wish that drove me off from SHIII,& it really has nothing to do with valor,or R/L ethic. Why can I not get thru to you ? Darkness is when Subs recharge on the surface,because AC can't see US @ PD Hey man just add a nerf to your FAQ. PLEASE yours,Donut

Donut...

The Path that you seek is Data/Config/Air Strike. In the Air Strike CFG. file scroll down till you see Night Modifier=0.2. This is the setting for night air attacks. Change it to Night Modifier=0.0, then save.

IRL the Japanese had no night interdiction capability until the very last months of the war, and even at that it was not very good.
Simply put you should never be attacked by an IJN or IJAAC aircraft at night while at sea.
__________________
" And the sea shall grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus

pythos · 01-29-08, 10:34 PM

July 42, Aleutians. EVERY FREAKIN HALF HOUR, contact with an air unit!!!!

This I do not think is anywhere near acurate.

Every 5 hours, yea that I could see.

Problem is, I went to SH4 editor to look at the air layer...and have no idea which part controls the interval an aircraft is sent out.

anyone have ideas on how to correct this lunacy?

View Poll Results: Do you think the air layer needs a major overhaul?
Yes	46	92.00%
No	4	8.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

01-29-08, 06:14 AM	#1
AkbarGulag Samurai Navy Join Date: May 2007 Location: cfgdatsimZOMGddstgasns Posts: 571 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 1	[REQ] SH4 Air Mod As many of you have felt, the aircraft traffic in SH4 stock is fairly insane. After looking about there are some great MOD's that change or alter the way the games aircraft layers and the machines themselves work. Unfortunately all these MOD's also alter a lot more and they all seem to remove map contact updates. If you are like me and don't want to spend 4-5 hours looking for one ship, then you will know these MOD's are not for everyone. Has anyone considered the possibility of a MOD that is compatable with ROW and 1.4 that could enhance and improve the air dimension? __________________ "6 days into his patrol, the first enemy ship was spotted... a trawler... ...It was at this point, Captain AkbarGulag realised how green his crew was..."

01-29-08, 06:55 AM	#2
DavyJonesFootlocker The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stink Drunk in Trinidad Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 138 Uploads: 0	I use the Airstrike Mod and it helped in reducing the night attacks and number of spawning aircraft. At least that is what I noticed. What I don't like is the plane's flight characteristics. Torpedo-bombers should fly below 200m but they act otherwise releasing their torps too close to targets. Betty bombers even from 2000m will dive bomb and smack right into the water instead of level-bombing. I know this is a Naval sim but aircraft played an integral part in the Pacific war, particularly the carrier-bourne aircraft. __________________ "Silence means death. Stand on your feet. Inner fear your worst enemy."- Sepultura. My Silent Hunter 5 mantra is this......"Torpedo missed, sir!" A P-400 is a P-40 with a Zero after it. A proud member of the Wikipedia Haters Club

02-08-08, 09:15 AM	#4
The General The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mountain Ash, Wales, U.K. Posts: 1,548 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 3	Calling in Airstrikes! The code below is from the airstrike cfg file and I believe it is supposed to allow for the spawning of a friendly (aswell as enemy) airstrikes on an enemy taskforce or convoy after you have radioed in spotting one. You will see certain criteria must be met; like you must be within 1500 miles of a friendly airbase and that it must be during daylight and so forth. However for some reason it doesn't seem to work in SH4. The only time I have ever seen a friendly aircraft is when the odd one flies over Pearl Harbour. Surely this is a flaw in the game and can be easily corrected by one of you Mod-masters? Maximum Aircraft Range=1500 Poor Airbase Modifier=0.5 Novice Airbase Modifier=0.7 Competent Airbase Modifier=0.8 Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.9 Elite Airbase Modifier=1 Night Modifier=0.2 Default Air Strike Probability=20 Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Radio Messages Sent=20 Friendly Air Strike Probability Increase on Contact Report Sent=70 Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=90 Atenuation Factor=10 Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=25 __________________ *THE GENERAL*

02-08-08, 10:08 AM	#5
AkbarGulag Samurai Navy Join Date: May 2007 Location: cfgdatsimZOMGddstgasns Posts: 571 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 1	Thanks for that General This MOD is still on the burner. Plenty of resources gathered, with a reasonably clear picture of what has to be done. Lots of mundane stuff to do, but the mundane stuff isn't the challenge, it's the S3D side of things. Our team of two (including myself ) have almost everything we need. After writing up a few more 'How-to' resource files, we may be able to start making an itinery of all the jobs required. Once we have a clear picture and are able to spell out the exact events we need to put into action, there will be a post here. Most likely looking for 1-2 other people, with at least one person with skill in S3D being required, or even someone we can use as a resource to explain how to use S3D to do the tasks we have planned. If/When we get to that stage, a WIP will be put in place in these forums. EDIT: The General, are you saying some of this file doesn't work? or all of it? Because I have not found any other files that could dictate any of these events. Nothing that is easily readable at least... Also, two lines i'm curious on, "Atenuation Factor" and "Logic Steps Between Air Sessions". __________________ "6 days into his patrol, the first enemy ship was spotted... a trawler... ...It was at this point, Captain AkbarGulag realised how green his crew was..."

02-08-08, 10:46 AM	#6
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	The comments on those variables explain a little and confuse a lot:rotfl: These are from the stock file. Comparing paraB's reduced airstrike file against stock might give an idea of how the variables work. Total confusion: Atenuation Factor=10 ;[>0] decrease from an increased probability to default one on each air session Modifies "Time" between airstrikes: Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec) When you're ready to add team members, I'd be glad to do what I can. I have a fair amount of experience with S3D (and getting more every day ). __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.

01-29-08, 08:50 PM	#8
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The aircraft visual sensors need O-haul badly ! Originally posted by Tater. Did a few quick tests. I used an H6K armed with DCs. It dropped on me at 80ft. Note these were scripted planes. I was attacked by a few Bettys, but none bombed me. Looks like they didn't have DCs, but they sprayed the water with MG fire. Looks like we'll want a few new bombs---even make a 30kg and 60kg for the zeke. What I was really thinking was tweaking the air-dropped DC. The stock one has a sink rate of 5m/s, and a det depth of 5m +-5m. In RL, they had 2 different DC det depths. Make 2 identical bombs, one to each depth, and put 1 of each on the planes. Quote: Q. When making an attack on a submarine, were pilots allowed to drop depth charges after the submarine disappeared below the surface? A. Yes. Q. How many seconds after the submarine disappeared from sight were they allowed to attack? A. Within 30 seconds. Q. What size of depth bombs did your aircraft use? A. 250 kg. Q. Did you use any other airborne weapon besides depth bombs? A. We had nothing besides bombs. The bomb was a standard 250 kg bomb with a modified flat nose attachment and a special tail, a nose and tail fuse was used. Q. What depth setting did you use? A. We used 25 and 45 meters. If the submarine was discovered near a convoy at periscope depth and immediately submerged, we dropped the 25 meter; if time passed and gave the submarine time to go to a lower depth, we would drop the 45 meter bomb. Q. Did you drop more than one depth bomb at a time? A. Generally we dropped only one, but sometimes two. Q. When you dropped two, what spacing was used? A. None, the bombs were dropped simultaneously. Only experienced pilots were allowed to drop all bombs at once. Q. At what distance from the submarine was it necessary to explode the depth charge in order to sink the submarine? A. With the 250 kg bomb, it had to hit within 13 meters of the submarine in order to sink it. The smaller planes equipped with 60 kg bombs had to make a direct hit on the submarine to sink it. So 25m and 45m were the 2 real depth settings. I'd set the depth to that, no or little error. The burst charge on a standard 250kg makes it about as strong as the type 2 with a 162kg warhead, maybe more. In my current DC mod that's ~50% more powerful than the stock DC you are used to. I can make 2 versions, one for stock, 1 in line with my DC mod. I'll get on this. My gut says we should BOP clone the maritime patrol planes, then give their basic load DECs in addition to the other loads, then sprinkle a few per appropriate air base. tater I'm thinking, visual sensing range of aircraft needs to be reduced

01-29-08, 09:06 PM	#9
AkbarGulag Samurai Navy Join Date: May 2007 Location: cfgdatsimZOMGddstgasns Posts: 571 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 1	Thanks for finding that for us Donut. 45m :O now thats the sort of plane heat im talking about... and to kill within 13m, thats a real bad day for a submariner. As far as sprinkling these improved sub killers at airbases. Can anything be done to address the frequency of air attacks. One thing I noticed on mission, was that a Kate spotted me but took no action, then it was shortly followed by other planes in the vicinity that actually attacked. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't you take all the gear you needed rather than just spot for someone else ^^ , this is where I think Tater has the right idea. I see Ducimus has done a fair bit of work on planes in his TM mod, but am loathe to request he unstitch it as i'm sure I know what the answer is Regardless of that, a dedicated air layer MOD might be a far better idea. If anyone needs me to do monotonous data entry then PM me. __________________ "6 days into his patrol, the first enemy ship was spotted... a trawler... ...It was at this point, Captain AkbarGulag realised how green his crew was..."

01-29-08, 09:53 PM	#10
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Nerf for air strike @ nite Sailor man Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 46 Quote: Originally Posted by donut Quote: Originally Posted by Taurolas Ducimus you have a severe case of the condition known as "C.T.D" :rotfl: Long may it continue... even if it does contain the "Evil Ducimus Planes" hehehe I have spoke of this often,even had thought you Dicimus,had considered my request. Although having not gotten a response, I keep having an epiphany (your word) with this feature. Last patrol,agent insertion to the inland sea,North thru Kii sudio.coming back out 10 ten planes converged on my location at P/D at 2AM,pitch dark,no moon,& bombed ! All she wrote 10 Planes in the same area at 2AM would run into each-other in the dark. This is the two patrols your dead wish that drove me off from SHIII,& it really has nothing to do with valor,or R/L ethic. Why can I not get thru to you ? Darkness is when Subs recharge on the surface,because AC can't see US @ PD Hey man just add a nerf to your FAQ. PLEASE yours,Donut Donut... The Path that you seek is Data/Config/Air Strike. In the Air Strike CFG. file scroll down till you see Night Modifier=0.2. This is the setting for night air attacks. Change it to Night Modifier=0.0, then save. IRL the Japanese had no night interdiction capability until the very last months of the war, and even at that it was not very good. Simply put you should never be attacked by an IJN or IJAAC aircraft at night while at sea. __________________ " And the sea shall grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus

01-29-08, 10:34 PM	#11
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	July 42, Aleutians. EVERY FREAKIN HALF HOUR, contact with an air unit!!!! This I do not think is anywhere near acurate. Every 5 hours, yea that I could see. Problem is, I went to SH4 editor to look at the air layer...and have no idea which part controls the interval an aircraft is sent out. anyone have ideas on how to correct this lunacy?