The enemy within: evangelical fundamentalism in US armed forces

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Creationism is in open advance. Even at schools. A president launching wars at the word of God. More evangelicals than ever missionizing a bigger crowd - than ever. Internal analysis of the army voicing concern.
Religous right and neocons in unholy union being successfulk in disabling some vital parts of america's guaranteed, most vital and elementary freedoms.

No problem all that. But beware the wicked evil atheists! Well, Peking is fearing the Dalai Lama, another of these wicked evil atheists, accusing him of planning civil unrest and rebellion. Okay, when peking says so, it must be true.

You have a theocrat sitting in your White House right now, August - and you do not even see it when standing right in front of it.

I agree though on the pilgrims and founders having been religious people - somethign that often is overseen in europe. However, if these pilgrims really have been as intolerant and deaf for the voice of reason as the evangelical lords of TV today, is something different. If that would have been the case, the constitution, the bill of rights, the amandements and some more would not have been possible, and Thomas Jefferson and Ralph Waldo Emmerson would have ended on the stake. Actually, witch burning was not that bwide-spread and often practised as in Europe - whose climate of intolerance and supression these pilgrims tried to escape.

Obviously you have never heard of Cotton Mather Skybird. Evangelicals are nothing new in my country. I know you don't like our President but as much as you underestimate the power of 18th century American religion you way over estimate the influence of todays current crop of televangelists on the government of my country.

[Happy Times]

What is the number of these evengelicals? I have heard numbers 80-100 million?:hmm:

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

What is the number of these evengelicals? I have heard numbers 80-100 million?:hmm:

Usually you will read numbers in the range of 20-35% of the population. However, their grip at influencing positions they gain by allying with the politcial conservatives (much of their values ARE conservative's values) is overproportional, and as I said in the opening posting, currently around 50% of the deciding, command-making and otherwise influential positions in the miliutary are in hands of evangelical fundamentalists, gaining them during the reign of Bush. Also it was reminded that it is no rare phenomenon that persons not submitting to the overall conservative evangelical c,limate in a given unite, can become being intimadated, mobbed, put under pressure to submit, and their careers being put in question if not submitting, and this does not seem to happen rarely. Bush also publicly support creationsim being taughed at school although the supreme court has ruled that this is against the constitution, and in the past years we have had time and again reports on local school and cities where some kind of scandals, confrontations and attempts of fundamentalists to make school subjects of teaching their religious views, especially on creationism. the problem her eis that it no longer is a purely american problem. They have succeeded in letting it swap into europe as well, and it is expanding. They are so successful in propagating it, that even in Islam now their has shown up creationism, and it does not even try to hide that it just adaßts to the different religious figures they have, else it totally copies the american model of creationism.

Since both Blair and Bush have argued in public statements and interwiews with their morals, and since the religous right in America has called for the Iraq war si nce years before it was laucnhed, it should be obvious that it is emerging to be a real threat indeed - at least one war already has been launched because of partially being influenced by this thinking. Such braindead reasoning we simply cannot afford. The study also is about how religous views filter perceptions and decision making in the military, and therefore: form the reality the military feels competent to adress with its means and tools. Now, here is where the danger starts at the latest.

August's one mistake is, that - like often - he only accepts things to happen if they are happening in the open, plain and easy to be seen, uncovered, unhidden. For him some rule or law is written on a paper, and reality matches it, always, undisputed. If the constitution says this or that, it cannot be imagined by him that massive violation of this paragraph may be the rule of the day. And the US has remained unchnaged since decades and centuries, the past decades since the WII for example have not taken place and have not chnaged the poltiical moral face of the country - not at all! Since he is minimizing the danger that way, it appears to him that atheism suddenly is a so much greater a threat, when comparing.



Well, atheism is not the threat - only when it comes in the name of materialism, and not in the name of reason. And that is the realms of big business, and corporaion'S megalomania. And here indeed - it all has become a threat. to our constitutional order. To our freedoms. To the transparency of our political system of checks and balances. And here it goes into a strange alliance with fundamentalists, who also try to cloud the transparencies of policy-making. Not in the name of atheism of coursek, but in the name of their own scirpture-depending views.

All that is already bad enough. But where big business even lends itself to the cause of religous fundamentalism, it even gets worse. Think of military procuring projects, as mentioned in the study.

Well, however...

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[

Well, at least it hit people! 444 commensts till now.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....

If this is religion...yikes.

The world offers death on a silver platter.

Er, yes. The last thing we all do is to die. Are we to let that cloud our judgement and give up any sort of hope? Now I know why it's called blind faith.

Christ offers life.
Tell me what is wrong with that?

I suspect that if you had been born in India you wouldn't be saying this. I mean that religion is more or less accidental, incidental, and past it's shelf life.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It surprises me time and again how often people that are trying to raise an impression to be "religious", are desperately hoping for doomsday and the end of the world being near. I wonder how that fits together.

And btw: that attitude has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what this man named jesus tried to teach people.

Scriptures... In the end, Iceman, even if by fact all what you said may be true - you do not wish for a chance for man, or a better world. You want to see him fail no matter what - for your own satisfaction, and avoiding to need questioning your own convictions.

Criticising the status quo and expressing fears and concerns is one thing. and i am not taking man's survival for granted myself. But actively wishing for the worst, is a totally other thing. Can you go to sleep at night without being ashamed? Are you teaching this poison for the soul to your children as well, assuming you have any?

Maybe considering to join those Russians sectarians in the cave they occupied? They too think the end of the world is near, and there is no worth and no use in trying. They already hope for the worst, to feel legitimized.

That is queer, mildy put.

"are desperately hoping for doomsday and the end of the world" I prefer to look at things they way they are not thru rose colored glasses.Drink some more coffee.

"you do not wish for a chance for man, or a better world" I never said this at all I said I look at things they way they ARE not How I "wished" they were.

See you on the other Skybird..you and others here will keep your heads in the sand until the very end which is your "choice", I and Christ merely offers another way....what, as I asked above, is EXACTLY your plan?...you don't have one..period.

I am in no cave and I fear nothing. I have no weapons in my home to protect myself from evil men as I believe that he who kills with the sword will die with it.Do not mistake me for some crazy person I have a great job ,great family, nice home...and tommorrow it is cast into the fire to be tried.

The harvest is great and the laborers few Skybird...it is my hope sincerely that you and all here will be counted as wheat and not chaff.I'm a laborer.But just like in the days of Noah when the time is near the Door will be shut and it will be too late for ya then.

Please do me a favor and not lump me in with "Religion"....belief is not religion.

God and Christ and myself included do not hope or pray for the worlds demise...don't be silly and try to discount what I say by throwing that bs up...I know where you come from Skybird and I know your mind...it is fleshly and you and others here concern yourselves with fleshly things....but the big game the big show being played out behind the veil is for your soul.

Almost harvest time...

[Skybird]

"If I knew that the world is bound to perish tomorrow, I would still plant an apple tree today ."

(Martin Luther)

It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....
1. The atmosphere ... 2. The food ... (yaddayaddayadda)
These are facts... non disputed by scientists and the like.
Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it. The world offers death on a silver platter."

(Iceman)

Get a visum for Russia, Iceman, and join those men in the cave. They are your real brothers, believe me.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Brilliant!!!

Seldome had such a good laught.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Deamon

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Brilliant!!!

Seldome had such a good laught.

You should see his 27 others.
http://www.youtube.com/profile_video...patcondell&p=r
Be aware that the quality of his speeches is varying and some are weak, but most are very nicely thought out.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You should see his 27 others.
http://www.youtube.com/profile_video...patcondell&p=r
Be aware that the quality of his speeches is varying and some are weak, but most are very nicely thought out.

Already watching

Not that I would agree on everything but his sense of humor is pricelss

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Get a visum for Russia, Iceman, and join those men in the cave. They are your real brothers, believe me.

Anyone care to lighten me were this apocalyptic mentality comes to these evangelicals?
Something like 90% of Finns belong to the Lutheran church but we have very little fundamentalists. Its often said Lutherans are never "happy" and are constantly trying to make things even better and work harder. So they dont have time to think about the afterlife all the time.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I and Christ .

I think that must be, Christ and me. :hmm:

[CB..]

i feel it comes from the fundamentalist unconcious (?) desire to by pass the need for faith...hence the literal interpretation of the various scriptures..here's a good example...
whilst i was working in a hospital a while back...one of the ward assistants (a fundamentalist Christian) was amazed to the point of confusion by the fact that one of the patients was a Christian..and yet was ill....this completely contradicted the literal interpretation of the Bible...where-as all illness had been taken onto Christ as part of the sacrifice he made etc..ergo no Christian could ever become ill...

i kid you not.....the literal interpretation of scripture ...(again i cannot emphasise enough just how "normal" this type of thinking is in fundamentalist groups..it's bog standard run of the mill fundamentalist doctrine)

now this ward assistant went into a deep crisis regarding this patient even to the point of haranging the patient about his lack of faith...how could he be ill?? ..she is going to spend most of her life in such a state of confusion and cause no end of harm if she does not cotton on..(if you see the relevance of the comparison)

etc

mean-while the patient maintained that his faith was not negated by his illness..far from it ...

the fundamentalist point of view and their literal interpretation of scripture is a "low brow" attempt to avoid the need for faith entirely...faith is complicated...faith is not blind...etc etc well you know the storys same as me..

fundamentalists by their actions seek to deny the need for faith by claiming the literal truth...but because faith is anything BUT literal...and....hence the need and use for/of parable..etc..thus they are unwilling to accept that faith is a struggle...not a light switch ...and that really "does their heads in" lol

The real threat comes from those who would not allow the peaceful, free exercise of religion.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by waste gate

The real threat comes from those who would not allow the peaceful, free exercise of religion.

As there is? China, SA?