The enemy within: evangelical fundamentalism in US armed forces
 

"The impact of religious and political affiliation on strategic military decisions and policy recommendations"

This study paper has been published on the website of the US Army War college. I find the things it points at as worrying and alarming as I found all kinds of religious fundamentalism worrying and alarming, always, thus I like the points being referred to as little as I like the Taleban in Afghanistan.

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/ksil432.pdf


Commenting on this danger:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...holy_warriors/

Well its no big secret the fundies have had alot of clout, and the military has always been primarly republican in individual poltical leanings.

The clout of the religous right, i have to admit, find very disconcerting. Religion and state should be kept seperate, but the religious right, has other ideas.

I don't know if theres any conspiracy stuff going on, but they are very good at interjecting their dogma in peoples daily lives, in subtle ways. When i grew up, Halloween was about good fun, carving pumpkins, trick or treating, and dressing up in costume. The fun even extended into school - it was a simple holiday. These days its not allowed at school because some local christian thought it was pagan worship or some such. Even if it is, what's it to them?

Unfortunatly the evangilicals won't rest until the US is a religously controlled state, much like Iran. The effects are subtle and everwhere. I remember back in 1996, or 97, we used to see this guy around the barracks every wedsnday and sunday, dressed up in a suit, bible in hand, looking for converts. Most of us looked at him funny while drinking our beers thinking, "Is this guy serious? what a nutjob!" Well, taht guy wore the same uniform we did. That was 10 years ago, i wonder if theres more of those types now.

Whats more scary is The fundies are going after the next generation of americans. When you have kids growing up going to **** like this:

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/
(look at movies and pictures here, its F'ing scary)

I have to wonder if the US, a few generations from now, is going to be transformed into the "Christian republic of America", much like the "Islamic republic of Iran".

Hitchens and Dawkins both call it child abuse. So does Condell. So do I.

But this paper and the article I linked to are about the army, and fundamentalists and the Chrstian right trying to get it under their influence. Let's keep the focus on that for the sake of this thread. Discussing it on a national communal level and the implications for civil US society would see this topic possibly going up in flames. Not needed! ;)

Well, like i said, they're everywhere, so to me its hard to focus on just one aspect without looking at the larger picture. Where the military is concerned the only place where it really matters is the decision makers, and how they let it effect their decision making. The rest of the miltary probably does what myself and my buddies did when it comes to evangelical influence, laugh. I got a bigger laugh when that nutjob i mentioned found somebody stupid enough to listen to the crap he had to spew.

Those guys really take themselves seriously. The barracks is not a family or church enviorment, but yet, there he was, "spreading the word". That said, evangicals might find a more receptive audience in the miltary, the saying "there are no atheists in foxholes" is patently true.

Much ado about nothing
 

American armies have always been havens for Christian faith. And that largely has been good for the military. Both north and south had great revivals in their armies during the Civil War and nobody was saying it portended any disaster. Similar things happened during WWI and WWII without invoking any Chicken Little complex. It is in the nature of those facing dangerous circumstances to think on religious issues, just as it is in the nature of people in that situation to raise hell and have fun. That is in no way dangerous to the military or political process, any more than the preponderance of socialists in political institutions is.

Conflict within the rules of civilized society is how progress takes place. Checks and balances between those of differing world views, interests, philosophies and religions works for the good of all, if not always for their comfort level.

What we are supposed to have in America is freedom OF religion, "Congress shall make no law infringing..." not "freedom FROM religion." That, sirs, is a socialist concept we cannot tolerate.

You folks would be the first to defend a crazy person standing on the street corner proclaiming black helicopter conspiracies as freedom of speech, even if he is a little irritating. OK a lot irritating. But put a Bible in his hand and have him yelling you're going to hell because he somehow thinks that'll make you want to be just like him, why can't you ignore him just like the other guy.

There are a lot more enforced "holiday trees" and "winter festivals" replacing Christmas than schools canceling halloween. I have heard of some atheists in schools trying to eliminate halloween because it was a "religious holiday." Stupid people aren't stupid because they are Christian or atheist: they're stupid because they're stupid! Most Christians are common sense people who are completely unlike your stereotype of some kind of nazis out to control the world in part of their evil empire. Do you really think the strange guy in your army unit was CAPABLE of establishing totalitarian power? I'd say he was to be pitied, not hated or feared. People just need to get a life and quit expecting everyone to be like themselves.

Theres a never ending vicious cycle thats been at work for some time. You push a group of people, they push back harder. If atheists or christians stopped shoving at each other (im ambivilant to both), and realized that their rights end, where the other persons nose begins (both literally and figuratively), then maybe that subject will finally go the way of the dodo bird. Until such time, it will be a never ending social tug of war, with no end in sight.

As an aside, people, and their views, are products of their enviorment in which they've lived. Not everyone experiences the bad things that are derived from sterotypes, others do. The trick remains to keep the bad experiences in perspective and not paint with a wide brush, but always the bad experiences remain, and they're never forgotton, so it often becomes very hard. (theres a story behind that, but its much too personal)

edit:

BTW , RR, please dont take offense at my views on this subject. My personality is often just frank bluntless, mixed with a heavy seasoning of sarchasm, with a "hell bent for leather" attitude, for want of a better term. I think im hardwired that way. Imagine my surpise when i met some long lost relatives from one of my genetic parients and found ALL OF EM are just like that. Good christ!

Not dangerous, said Rocking robbins - but that is missing the point. The study for example asks the question in how far extreme religious views work like a filter through which reality must pass before a man'S reason makes any plans and and ways to adress it. It points at the risk that dangers do not get perceived just in time, or are exaggerated, because of the religous fundamentalism of the decision-makers. A German text I also read on the issue points at some statistical data, showing that since the Vietnam war the numerical relation between democrats and republicans in the military has very fundamentally changed, almost reversed accoridng to the USAWC study now, and that the link between being Republican camps and fundamentalist evangelical policies and opinions is extremely strong - its not really matching reality to say that Republicans "always" had been totally dominating in the military - this total dominance has devceloped over the past 3 or 4 decades only. also it was pointed out that the group pressure on people to join the fundamental christian orientation in units and branches of the army forces is extremely strong and reaches as far as open mobbing of people, denying them any career chances if they resist, and isolating them if they do withhold themselves from joining the belief of their units, or do not attend the service of their evangelical unit caplan. And finally, it was pointed out that in the past years under Bush, radical evangelical camps were able to push their people in up to 50% of those positions representing higher command ranks and planning and decision making positions.

Not dangerous?

So, there is a very great danger indeed, by evangelical dogma dominating percpetion of reality and decision making on questions of war and peace, and how to wage wars and with what objectives, and growing religious intolerance in the army. By influencing both the composition of the army, and the way in which threats to the US from the outside get evaluated, the thread this developement poses isheavily influencing US policy. This is not the army from the time of vietnam, and it is not the army fighting in WWII.

And I would rate the Iraq '03 and also the person of Bush himself war as one symptom of this dangerous developement. Look were both have led America.

generaly speaking you would have to feel it to be disturbing to have any group that fermently believes in armageddon to have even the most marginal influence over military decisions....as they may well generate a "self fullfilling prophecy"..why work for any possible peacefull soloution if you are 100% sure that all will end in destruction...??? that is they by definition will have precious little FAITH in any positive outcome..and may even believe any peacefull outcome to be "the work of the devil"....having had some little contact with "bouncy castle" fundamentalist christianity here in the UK, i can say without any doubt what so ever that the above mind set is nothing out of ordinary at all..fairly left wing in fact as far as Fundamentalist thinking goes...

Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....

1. The atmosphere is polluted beyond repair.
2. The food supplies are not in good shape and if they are the ones who have starve the have nots.
3. Those in power around the globe will never Never agree to share control.
4. We daily poison ourselves with pollution and crappy foods.
5. This is not just America either but it is a concerted effort by ALL.
6. WE Kill
7. WE Steal
8. We Sin against others and ourselves.

These are facts...non disputed by scientists and the like.

Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it.

The world offers death on a silver platter.

Christ offers life.
Tell me what is wrong with that?
Have a good day. :)

ah but if one is really so sure....what need is there for faith...?? one wonders

If this would be the road America takes, it will have to take it without Europe.
Good bye and good luck.

It surprises me time and again how often people that are trying to raise an impression to be "religious", are desperately hoping for doomsday and the end of the world being near. I wonder how that fits together.

And btw: that attitude has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what this man named jesus tried to teach people.

Scriptures... :dead: In the end, Iceman, even if by fact all what you said may be true - you do not wish for a chance for man, or a better world. You want to see him fail no matter what - for your own satisfaction, and avoiding to need questioning your own convictions.

Criticising the status quo and expressing fears and concerns is one thing. and i am not taking man's survival for granted myself. But actively wishing for the worst, is a totally other thing. Can you go to sleep at night without being ashamed? Are you teaching this poison for the soul to your children as well, assuming you have any?

Maybe considering to join those Russians sectarians in the cave they occupied? They too think the end of the world is near, and there is no worth and no use in trying. They already hope for the worst, to feel legitimized.

That is queer, mildy put.

So some fundies don't like Halloween, just like some soulless athiests are trying their best best to take away Christmas, big deal, neither are going to have more than local success since the vast majority of the nation would never put up with it.

Look, the US was created by religious people, it has been run for over two centuries by religious people, and in all that time we have managed to avoid having the country turned into a theocracy. Why is that? If the threat from organized religion is as great as some make it out to be then how do we account for such a long running lack of success given the fact that athiests had little political power with which to oppose them until fairly recently?

Seems to me that the fundimentalist "threat" grows as athiests gain power themselves.

Creationism is in open advance. Even at schools. A president launching wars at the word of God. More evangelicals than ever missionizing a bigger crowd - than ever. Internal analysis of the army voicing concern.
Religous right and neocons in unholy union being successfulk in disabling some vital parts of america's guaranteed, most vital and elementary freedoms.

No problem all that. But beware the wicked evil atheists! ;) Well, Peking is fearing the Dalai Lama, another of these wicked evil atheists, accusing him of planning civil unrest and rebellion. Okay, when peking says so, it must be true. :lol:

You have a theocrat sitting in your White House right now, August - and you do not even see it when standing right in front of it.

I agree though on the pilgrims and founders having been religious people - somethign that often is overseen in europe. However, if these pilgrims really have been as intolerant and deaf for the voice of reason as the evangelical lords of TV today, is something different. If that would have been the case, the constitution, the bill of rights, the amandements and some more would not have been possible, and Thomas Jefferson and Ralph Waldo Emmerson would have ended on the stake. Actually, witch burning was not that bwide-spread and often practised as in Europe - whose climate of intolerance and supression these pilgrims tried to escape.

Most christians who have been in power have not been backwards bible literalists, its those people who are the threat not the christians who put common sense before scripture.