The enemy within: evangelical fundamentalism in US armed forces

CB.. · 11-22-07, 11:48 AM

generaly speaking you would have to feel it to be disturbing to have any group that fermently believes in armageddon to have even the most marginal influence over military decisions....as they may well generate a "self fullfilling prophecy"..why work for any possible peacefull soloution if you are 100% sure that all will end in destruction...??? that is they by definition will have precious little FAITH in any positive outcome..and may even believe any peacefull outcome to be "the work of the devil"....having had some little contact with "bouncy castle" fundamentalist christianity here in the UK, i can say without any doubt what so ever that the above mind set is nothing out of ordinary at all..fairly left wing in fact as far as Fundamentalist thinking goes...

Iceman · 11-22-07, 05:58 PM

Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....

1. The atmosphere is polluted beyond repair.
2. The food supplies are not in good shape and if they are the ones who have starve the have nots.
3. Those in power around the globe will never Never agree to share control.
4. We daily poison ourselves with pollution and crappy foods.
5. This is not just America either but it is a concerted effort by ALL.
6. WE Kill
7. WE Steal
8. We Sin against others and ourselves.

These are facts...non disputed by scientists and the like.

Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it.

The world offers death on a silver platter.

Christ offers life.
Tell me what is wrong with that?
Have a good day.

CB.. · 11-22-07, 06:47 PM

ah but if one is really so sure....what need is there for faith...?? one wonders

Happy Times · 11-22-07, 07:10 PM

If this would be the road America takes, it will have to take it without Europe.
Good bye and good luck.

Skybird · 11-22-07, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....

1. The atmosphere is polluted beyond repair.
2. The food supplies are not in good shape and if they are the ones who have starve the have nots.
3. Those in power around the globe will never Never agree to share control.
4. We daily poison ourselves with pollution and crappy foods.
5. This is not just America either but it is a concerted effort by ALL.
6. WE Kill
7. WE Steal
8. We Sin against others and ourselves.

These are facts...non disputed by scientists and the like.

Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it.

The world offers death on a silver platter.

Christ offers life.
Tell me what is wrong with that?
Have a good day.

It surprises me time and again how often people that are trying to raise an impression to be "religious", are desperately hoping for doomsday and the end of the world being near. I wonder how that fits together.

And btw: that attitude has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what this man named jesus tried to teach people.

Scriptures...

In the end, Iceman, even if by fact all what you said may be true - you do not wish for a chance for man, or a better world. You want to see him fail no matter what - for your own satisfaction, and avoiding to need questioning your own convictions.

Criticising the status quo and expressing fears and concerns is one thing. and i am not taking man's survival for granted myself. But actively wishing for the worst, is a totally other thing. Can you go to sleep at night without being ashamed? Are you teaching this poison for the soul to your children as well, assuming you have any?

Maybe considering to join those Russians sectarians in the cave they occupied? They too think the end of the world is near, and there is no worth and no use in trying. They already hope for the worst, to feel legitimized.

That is queer, mildy put.

Iceman · 11-23-07, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....

1. The atmosphere is polluted beyond repair.
2. The food supplies are not in good shape and if they are the ones who have starve the have nots.
3. Those in power around the globe will never Never agree to share control.
4. We daily poison ourselves with pollution and crappy foods.
5. This is not just America either but it is a concerted effort by ALL.
6. WE Kill
7. WE Steal
8. We Sin against others and ourselves.

These are facts...non disputed by scientists and the like.

Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it.

The world offers death on a silver platter.

Christ offers life.
Tell me what is wrong with that?
Have a good day.

It surprises me time and again how often people that are trying to raise an impression to be "religious", are desperately hoping for doomsday and the end of the world being near. I wonder how that fits together.

And btw: that attitude has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with what this man named jesus tried to teach people.

Scriptures...

In the end, Iceman, even if by fact all what you said may be true - you do not wish for a chance for man, or a better world. You want to see him fail no matter what - for your own satisfaction, and avoiding to need questioning your own convictions.

Criticising the status quo and expressing fears and concerns is one thing. and i am not taking man's survival for granted myself. But actively wishing for the worst, is a totally other thing. Can you go to sleep at night without being ashamed? Are you teaching this poison for the soul to your children as well, assuming you have any?

Maybe considering to join those Russians sectarians in the cave they occupied? They too think the end of the world is near, and there is no worth and no use in trying. They already hope for the worst, to feel legitimized.

That is queer, mildy put.

"are desperately hoping for doomsday and the end of the world" I prefer to look at things they way they are not thru rose colored glasses.Drink some more coffee.

"you do not wish for a chance for man, or a better world" I never said this at all I said I look at things they way they ARE not How I "wished" they were.

See you on the other Skybird..you and others here will keep your heads in the sand until the very end which is your "choice", I and Christ merely offers another way....what, as I asked above, is EXACTLY your plan?...you don't have one..period.

I am in no cave and I fear nothing. I have no weapons in my home to protect myself from evil men as I believe that he who kills with the sword will die with it.Do not mistake me for some crazy person I have a great job ,great family, nice home...and tommorrow it is cast into the fire to be tried.

The harvest is great and the laborers few Skybird...it is my hope sincerely that you and all here will be counted as wheat and not chaff.I'm a laborer.But just like in the days of Noah when the time is near the Door will be shut and it will be too late for ya then.

Please do me a favor and not lump me in with "Religion"....belief is not religion.

God and Christ and myself included do not hope or pray for the worlds demise...don't be silly and try to discount what I say by throwing that bs up...I know where you come from Skybird and I know your mind...it is fleshly and you and others here concern yourselves with fleshly things....but the big game the big show being played out behind the veil is for your soul.

Almost harvest time...

Skybird · 11-23-07, 12:08 PM

Quote:

"If I knew that the world is bound to perish tomorrow, I would still plant an apple tree today ."

(Martin Luther)

Quote:

It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....
1. The atmosphere ... 2. The food ... (yaddayaddayadda)
These are facts... non disputed by scientists and the like.
Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it. The world offers death on a silver platter."

(Iceman)

Get a visum for Russia, Iceman, and join those men in the cave. They are your real brothers, believe me.

Happy Times · 11-23-07, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Quote:

"If I knew that the world is bound to perish tomorrow, I would still plant an apple tree today ."

(Martin Luther)

Quote:

It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....
1. The atmosphere ... 2. The food ... (yaddayaddayadda)
These are facts... non disputed by scientists and the like.
Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it. The world offers death on a silver platter."

(Iceman)

Get a visum for Russia, Iceman, and join those men in the cave. They are your real brothers, believe me.

Anyone care to lighten me were this apocalyptic mentality comes to these evangelicals?
Something like 90% of Finns belong to the Lutheran church but we have very little fundamentalists. Its often said Lutherans are never "happy" and are constantly trying to make things even better and work harder. So they dont have time to think about the afterlife all the time.

CB.. · 11-23-07, 01:51 PM

i feel it comes from the fundamentalist unconcious (?) desire to by pass the need for faith...hence the literal interpretation of the various scriptures..here's a good example...
whilst i was working in a hospital a while back...one of the ward assistants (a fundamentalist Christian) was amazed to the point of confusion by the fact that one of the patients was a Christian..and yet was ill....this completely contradicted the literal interpretation of the Bible...where-as all illness had been taken onto Christ as part of the sacrifice he made etc..ergo no Christian could ever become ill...

i kid you not.....the literal interpretation of scripture ...(again i cannot emphasise enough just how "normal" this type of thinking is in fundamentalist groups..it's bog standard run of the mill fundamentalist doctrine)

now this ward assistant went into a deep crisis regarding this patient even to the point of haranging the patient about his lack of faith...how could he be ill?? ..she is going to spend most of her life in such a state of confusion and cause no end of harm if she does not cotton on..(if you see the relevance of the comparison)

etc

mean-while the patient maintained that his faith was not negated by his illness..far from it ...

the fundamentalist point of view and their literal interpretation of scripture is a "low brow" attempt to avoid the need for faith entirely...faith is complicated...faith is not blind...etc etc well you know the storys same as me..

fundamentalists by their actions seek to deny the need for faith by claiming the literal truth...but because faith is anything BUT literal...and....hence the need and use for/of parable..etc..thus they are unwilling to accept that faith is a struggle...not a light switch ...and that really "does their heads in" lol

Fish · 11-23-07, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I and Christ .

I think that must be, Christ and me. :hmm:

11-23-07, 01:52 PM

The real threat comes from those who would not allow the peaceful, free exercise of religion.

Fish · 11-23-07, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waste gate

The real threat comes from those who would not allow the peaceful, free exercise of religion.

As there is? China, SA?

Tchocky · 11-23-07, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life....

If this is religion...yikes.

Quote:

The world offers death on a silver platter.

Er, yes. The last thing we all do is to die. Are we to let that cloud our judgement and give up any sort of hope? Now I know why it's called blind faith.

Quote:

Christ offers life.
Tell me what is wrong with that?

I suspect that if you had been born in India you wouldn't be saying this. I mean that religion is more or less accidental, incidental, and past it's shelf life.

Stealth Hunter · 11-25-07, 04:39 AM

Hell, I get on a plane for a vacation in California, and people stare at me like I'm going to blow them up just because I look Middle-Eastern (and- well, it's true; but Iranians aren't terrorists...).

Ugly mess all the way around. I'm an American citizen, and damn proud to be one, as am I also damn proud to be Iranian.

LtCmdrRat · 11-26-07, 06:48 PM

Quote from Mr. Robbins:
"What we are supposed to have in America is freedom OF religion, "Congress shall make no law infringing..." not "freedom FROM religion." That, sirs, is a socialist concept we cannot tolerate. "
So I think when I was immigrating to USA I had wrong ideas of liberties.
I hoped that America had both freedom of religion and freedom from religion
I hoped that America has tolerable culture but America doesnt tolerate socialism ideas( does rights even read Marx?)
Freedom of speech is left for your private conversations with your friends in private house.
I hoped that America has good judical system and I was right that Justice in America is the best staff that money can buy.

ps EVERYTHING ABOVE IS JUST MY SARCASM.
My neighbour is really missing America but America from yesterday not today's America. Is he right?

11-22-07, 11:48 AM	#1
CB.. Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,278 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	generaly speaking you would have to feel it to be disturbing to have any group that fermently believes in armageddon to have even the most marginal influence over military decisions....as they may well generate a "self fullfilling prophecy"..why work for any possible peacefull soloution if you are 100% sure that all will end in destruction...??? that is they by definition will have precious little FAITH in any positive outcome..and may even believe any peacefull outcome to be "the work of the devil"....having had some little contact with "bouncy castle" fundamentalist christianity here in the UK, i can say without any doubt what so ever that the above mind set is nothing out of ordinary at all..fairly left wing in fact as far as Fundamentalist thinking goes... __________________ the world's tinyiest sh3 supermod- and other SH3/SH2 stuff http://www.ebort2.co.uk/ The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B.Yeats

11-22-07, 06:47 PM	#3
CB.. Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,278 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	ah but if one is really so sure....what need is there for faith...?? one wonders __________________ the world's tinyiest sh3 supermod- and other SH3/SH2 stuff http://www.ebort2.co.uk/ The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B.Yeats

11-22-07, 07:10 PM	#4
Happy Times Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 2,950 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If this would be the road America takes, it will have to take it without Europe. Good bye and good luck. __________________

11-23-07, 01:51 PM	#9
CB.. Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,278 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i feel it comes from the fundamentalist unconcious (?) desire to by pass the need for faith...hence the literal interpretation of the various scriptures..here's a good example... whilst i was working in a hospital a while back...one of the ward assistants (a fundamentalist Christian) was amazed to the point of confusion by the fact that one of the patients was a Christian..and yet was ill....this completely contradicted the literal interpretation of the Bible...where-as all illness had been taken onto Christ as part of the sacrifice he made etc..ergo no Christian could ever become ill... i kid you not.....the literal interpretation of scripture ...(again i cannot emphasise enough just how "normal" this type of thinking is in fundamentalist groups..it's bog standard run of the mill fundamentalist doctrine) now this ward assistant went into a deep crisis regarding this patient even to the point of haranging the patient about his lack of faith...how could he be ill?? ..she is going to spend most of her life in such a state of confusion and cause no end of harm if she does not cotton on..(if you see the relevance of the comparison) etc mean-while the patient maintained that his faith was not negated by his illness..far from it ... the fundamentalist point of view and their literal interpretation of scripture is a "low brow" attempt to avoid the need for faith entirely...faith is complicated...faith is not blind...etc etc well you know the storys same as me.. fundamentalists by their actions seek to deny the need for faith by claiming the literal truth...but because faith is anything BUT literal...and....hence the need and use for/of parable..etc..thus they are unwilling to accept that faith is a struggle...not a light switch ...and that really "does their heads in" lol __________________ the world's tinyiest sh3 supermod- and other SH3/SH2 stuff http://www.ebort2.co.uk/ The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B.Yeats Last edited by CB..; 11-23-07 at 02:03 PM.

11-26-07, 06:48 PM	#15
LtCmdrRat Gunner Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My mind is My Fortress Posts: 100 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	Quote from Mr. Robbins: "What we are supposed to have in America is freedom OF religion, "Congress shall make no law infringing..." not "freedom FROM religion." That, sirs, is a socialist concept we cannot tolerate. " So I think when I was immigrating to USA I had wrong ideas of liberties. I hoped that America had both freedom of religion and freedom from religion I hoped that America has tolerable culture but America doesnt tolerate socialism ideas( does rights even read Marx?) Freedom of speech is left for your private conversations with your friends in private house. I hoped that America has good judical system and I was right that Justice in America is the best staff that money can buy. ps EVERYTHING ABOVE IS JUST MY SARCASM. My neighbour is really missing America but America from yesterday not today's America. Is he right? __________________ A joke is a very serious thing... sir winston churchill.

11-22-07, 05:58 PM	#2
Iceman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mesa AZ, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,253 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Look at the world around you realistically and quit living fantasy star trek, we all will overcome nonsense, and smell the coffee.It is not only silly but folly to believe that man will "ever" EVER! overcome it differences in faith,politics, and the like in time to save this world...face reality please and concede to the facts of life.... 1. The atmosphere is polluted beyond repair. 2. The food supplies are not in good shape and if they are the ones who have starve the have nots. 3. Those in power around the globe will never Never agree to share control. 4. We daily poison ourselves with pollution and crappy foods. 5. This is not just America either but it is a concerted effort by ALL. 6. WE Kill 7. WE Steal 8. We Sin against others and ourselves. These are facts...non disputed by scientists and the like. Please please! tell me what possible hope you have that I may believe in it. The world offers death on a silver platter. Christ offers life. Tell me what is wrong with that? Have a good day.

11-23-07, 01:52 PM	#11
waste gate Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	The real threat comes from those who would not allow the peaceful, free exercise of religion.

11-25-07, 04:39 AM	#14
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Hell, I get on a plane for a vacation in California, and people stare at me like I'm going to blow them up just because I look Middle-Eastern (and- well, it's true; but Iranians aren't terrorists...). Ugly mess all the way around. I'm an American citizen, and damn proud to be one, as am I also damn proud to be Iranian.