Is there any possible way to sneak up on a convoy? TM 1.6

jdkbph · 09-06-07, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

There seems to be a semi passive radar on the DD's that pick up the scope. Only raise it to readjust your heading or to line up a shot and keep it as low as possable.

Have we been able to confirm whether or not the height of the scope actually makes a difference in the game?

I had assumed all along that it did... but the reason I question this now is the other day I was fired upon by an escort while submerged, with the scope partially lowered so it was under water, but not completely in down in the well.

Now it's possible - but not likely given the smooth sea state at the time - that the scope broke the surface and was spotted. But it got me thinking. Maybe the game, for detection purposes, simply sees the scope as either fully lowered... or not. Or perhaps the up/down cut off point is the surface itself? Either of which would mean that an inch above water is as good as mile...

Thoughts?

JD

Doolan · 09-06-07, 09:30 AM

Interesting observation.

I have to say that patch 1.3 (not necessarily TM) has increased the escort capabilities a bit too much. Yes, it makes the game challenging, and yes, I know you can escape escorts most of the time by diving under the thermal layer or evading the sonar cone. Still, accounts are full of escort captains pretty much guessing where their DCs went and stating how difficult it was to actually hit something, while IJN destroyers post-1.3 patch are mean killing machines that have little or nothing to fear from us.

I'm still shocked at the DD that hit me with a charge yesterday in its first run while I was under the thermal layer, rigged for silent running and doing a circle with full rudder to port. Sure, they can get lucky, but they seem to get lucky too often.

The opposite happens to planes imho. Only once I've been sunk by one, and the way they aim they're actually manageable if you aim well with the AA. Shouldn't they be fearsome opponents?

mrbeast · 09-06-07, 09:36 AM

Does the game model any of the effects of clear water at periscope depth, ie your sub being visible even though its submerged on very calm days or is it just a graphics effect and has no bearing on the AI spotting you?

I've often thought that its strange that aircraft won't attack you when you're at periscope depth on a calm day and clearly visible from the air when you look on the external camera.

leovampire · 09-06-07, 10:45 AM

for the Ships and Plane's control what they can see when and where around them.
Graffic's has nothing to do with it that is just for us as players.

For instance the sensors are set up where it is hard for planes to see us at night so they dont fly at night anymore and in high sea's it is hard for them to spot the wake so they don't always see you and that is also controled in the visual sensors node's. There are also settings that stop them from seeing to far away in thefog state's. As long as the game register's these conditions they can not spot you.

I think so many people wanted the scope's spoted by ships the Dev's did it in patch 1.3 it is just a little too sensitive and can be seen too far away in any condition from 0 mps wind's to almost 8 mps wind's and wave state's.

NefariousKoel · 09-06-07, 10:57 AM

I'd rather the devs had set the AI escorts to randomly switch between listening and pinging. Barring that, I'd rather it be like 1.2 when they'd go active if they heard something.:hmm:

mrbeast · 09-06-07, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I'd rather the devs had set the AI escorts to randomly switch between listening and pinging.:hmm:

I remember years ago in Aces of the Deep the escorts would pretty much do that pinging and patroling around convoys, felt a bit more authentic than in SH.

tater · 09-06-07, 11:02 AM

Jap DC capability isn't specifically modeled at all, frankly. In RL, jap DCs could only be set at 30m depth intervals, for example.

The problem is that in RL, the japs droped loads of DCs, but poorly. In game they seem to only drop within certain "firing solution" parameters so if they drop at all, they tend to be better aimed than they should be.

One thing that really has not been properly tested, IMO, is the interaction of AI skill vs AI sensor settings.

TM dumps all the elites, but it also concentrates on competant and veteran AI.

I think If AI 1 and 2 was not entirely stupid, we might see better variability in AI attacks. The problem in the past has been that AI 1 was so clueless they'd not shoot back on the suraface at your subs half the time.

MIght be interesting to really dial UP the sensors, then set the AI lower (as a test).

Doolan · 09-06-07, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

The problem is that in RL, the japs droped loads of DCs, but poorly. In game they seem to only drop within certain "firing solution" parameters so if they drop at all, they tend to be better aimed than they should be.

Tell me about it... I'm probably the unluckiest captain to ever set sail, but I've found three or four DDs that basically snipe me with their DCs.

"No no, a bit to the left, we want to hit the bearded guy, not the one with the glasses"

Digital_Trucker · 09-06-07, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doolan

"No no, a bit to the left, we want to hit the bearded guy, not the one with the glasses"

:rotfl: Feeling a bit paranoid, are we?:rotfl:

just kidding, BTW

Snuffy · 09-06-07, 05:32 PM

Since starting a new career with Vanilla, 1.3, and TM 1.6+ I have not had an opportunity to bump into a convoy, or a task force for that matter. Most of my contacts have been single ... maybe the occasional double ship type.

I'm hoping one day to get a good convoy so I can see if I'm any good or not.

09-06-07, 10:45 AM	#4
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The differn't sensor node's for the Ships and Plane's control what they can see when and where around them. Graffic's has nothing to do with it that is just for us as players. For instance the sensors are set up where it is hard for planes to see us at night so they dont fly at night anymore and in high sea's it is hard for them to spot the wake so they don't always see you and that is also controled in the visual sensors node's. There are also settings that stop them from seeing to far away in thefog state's. As long as the game register's these conditions they can not spot you. I think so many people wanted the scope's spoted by ships the Dev's did it in patch 1.3 it is just a little too sensitive and can be seen too far away in any condition from 0 mps wind's to almost 8 mps wind's and wave state's. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

09-06-07, 10:57 AM	#5
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I'd rather the devs had set the AI escorts to randomly switch between listening and pinging. Barring that, I'd rather it be like 1.2 when they'd go active if they heard something.:hmm: __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

09-06-07, 05:32 PM	#10
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Since starting a new career with Vanilla, 1.3, and TM 1.6+ I have not had an opportunity to bump into a convoy, or a task force for that matter. Most of my contacts have been single ... maybe the occasional double ship type. I'm hoping one day to get a good convoy so I can see if I'm any good or not. __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!

09-06-07, 09:30 AM	#2
Doolan Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 112 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Interesting observation. I have to say that patch 1.3 (not necessarily TM) has increased the escort capabilities a bit too much. Yes, it makes the game challenging, and yes, I know you can escape escorts most of the time by diving under the thermal layer or evading the sonar cone. Still, accounts are full of escort captains pretty much guessing where their DCs went and stating how difficult it was to actually hit something, while IJN destroyers post-1.3 patch are mean killing machines that have little or nothing to fear from us. I'm still shocked at the DD that hit me with a charge yesterday in its first run while I was under the thermal layer, rigged for silent running and doing a circle with full rudder to port. Sure, they can get lucky, but they seem to get lucky too often. The opposite happens to planes imho. Only once I've been sunk by one, and the way they aim they're actually manageable if you aim well with the AA. Shouldn't they be fearsome opponents?

09-06-07, 09:36 AM	#3
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Does the game model any of the effects of clear water at periscope depth, ie your sub being visible even though its submerged on very calm days or is it just a graphics effect and has no bearing on the AI spotting you? I've often thought that its strange that aircraft won't attack you when you're at periscope depth on a calm day and clearly visible from the air when you look on the external camera.

09-06-07, 11:02 AM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Jap DC capability isn't specifically modeled at all, frankly. In RL, jap DCs could only be set at 30m depth intervals, for example. The problem is that in RL, the japs droped loads of DCs, but poorly. In game they seem to only drop within certain "firing solution" parameters so if they drop at all, they tend to be better aimed than they should be. One thing that really has not been properly tested, IMO, is the interaction of AI skill vs AI sensor settings. TM dumps all the elites, but it also concentrates on competant and veteran AI. I think If AI 1 and 2 was not entirely stupid, we might see better variability in AI attacks. The problem in the past has been that AI 1 was so clueless they'd not shoot back on the suraface at your subs half the time. MIght be interesting to really dial UP the sensors, then set the AI lower (as a test).