GWX's "uber" AI demystified - Page 15

Shelton · 09-02-07, 01:45 AM

How does the AI calculate what depth to drop the charges? from re-reading this it is easy to avoid the charges in the early part of the war - just go deeper than 220meters!

Shelton · 09-02-07, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saldiray

Hi. I've been playing SH3 1.4b with GWX 1.0 mod installed, for a while. On my last patrol i was detected by the lone escort of a convoy, on the hydrophones i could easily hear the escort speeding up for the attack run, but i was still being pinged so i decided to raise my scope to see where the other escort was but there were none! i checked on the hydrophones as well and it was the only warship in the area. And the lone escort continued to ping me till he was on top of me. I thought there should be a 200 mt def zone in front of the escort where he couldn't ping me anymore. What's wrong with it then? Is this some kind of side effect of GWX 1.0? OK, i see that escorts have UberAI, but lack of 200mt def zone isn't related to AI, i think.

Hello

When he is Pinging, he is sending a sound wave into the water so he is not pinging YOU directly, just that you are hearing the sound waves against your sub!

Regards
Shelton.

Jimbuna · 09-02-07, 04:13 AM

The fact he is pinging does not automatically mean he has found you but rather that he is looking for you

Shelton · 09-02-07, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelton

How does the AI calculate what depth to drop the charges? from re-reading this it is easy to avoid the charges in the early part of the war - just go deeper than 220meters!

Anyone know the answer to this question ?

Kpt. Lehmann · 09-02-07, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelton

How does the AI calculate what depth to drop the charges? from re-reading this it is easy to avoid the charges in the early part of the war - just go deeper than 220meters!

Anyone know the answer to this question ?

When your sub is detected, the AI sensors calculate your depth in truth very precisely. (In stock SH3, DC's are entirely too accurate.) When the ashcans are dumped... a variable controls the exact depth at which they detonate plus or minus a random depth detonation factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

The fact he is pinging does not automatically mean he has found you but rather that he is looking for you.

Exactly... as was already stated earlier on this thread.

Brag · 09-02-07, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saldiray

Hi. I've been playing SH3 1.4b with GWX 1.0 mod installed, for a while. On my last patrol i was detected by the lone escort of a convoy, on the hydrophones i could easily hear the escort speeding up for the attack run, but i was still being pinged so i decided to raise my scope to see where the other escort was but there were none! i checked on the hydrophones as well and it was the only warship in the area. And the lone escort continued to ping me till he was on top of me. I thought there should be a 200 mt def zone in front of the escort where he couldn't ping me anymore. What's wrong with it then? Is this some kind of side effect of GWX 1.0? OK, i see that escorts have UberAI, but lack of 200mt def zone isn't related to AI, i think.

Irf you could see 'im with periscope, you were too bloody shallow, he can pick you up right to the moment he is on top of you.

Dead meat loves shallow subs.

sasquatch · 11-14-07, 11:58 AM

Amazing thread

Querry - does passive sonar have a difficult time picking up your u-boat when its at periscope depth?

danlisa · 11-14-07, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquatch

Querry - does passive sonar have a difficult time picking up your u-boat when its at periscope depth?

In my experience it does BUT not all the time. Don't think that you can approach every contact at PD and not be detected.

I have been able to evade detection while remaining at PD whereas I have been detected at depths greater than 20m. I'm not sure if it's by design but it certainly does happen. Also, I'm sure this is not a GWX design but rather a SH3 limitation/quirk.

KeptinCranky · 11-14-07, 05:05 PM

In my experience it seems to be related to sea state, this is by no means set in stone but when evading escorts in rough seas PD often works better than 30 meters or so, the problem is the conning tower breaching the surface, you don't want that, as a rule I set the depth to 17 meters or so in such situations.

It's definitely not a foolproof method, sometimes it works amazingly well, other times you're dead that much sooner

Kpt. Lehmann · 11-14-07, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquatch

Amazing thread

Querry - does passive sonar have a difficult time picking up your u-boat when its at periscope depth?

Sea state does indeed have an effect on hydrophones. (passive sonar)

It also has an effect on active sonar, but not nearly as much.

Are you safe at periscope depth?

Well, that depends on what you are doing, and the sensor in question.

If you are running around at flank speed and making lots of noise...

... yer gonna DIE!!!

Sneak to survive!

Read "Appendix C" in the GWX manual... and the 1943 Edition U-boat Commander's Handbook as translated by the U.S. Navy.

(With the latter you must listen to what is NOT being said to understand why different matters are important. The handbook sells cheap on Ebay. Got mine for six dollars.)

Gorshkov · 11-19-07, 03:37 AM

Yes, Allied destroyers in GWX mod possess electronic suite probably taken from Dangerous Waters! :rotfl:

Yet more seriously: Can you give us some optional way (cheat or tweak GWX mod) to decrease DD sensors efficiency? Otherwise I am afraid many less experienced or impatient guys can no longer use GWX mod.

TarJak · 11-19-07, 05:26 AM

Do you know the story of the young bull and the old bull?

Impatience gets you sunk! That is the whole point of this mod! Learning to think like a RL Kaleun so that you consider whether or not to risk going a few knots faster and risk being heard or to take the time to set up an ambush properly and spring it so you kill and avoid being killed.

Gorshkov · 11-19-07, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Impatience gets you sunk! That is the whole point of this mod! Learning to think like a RL Kaleun so that you consider whether or not to risk going a few knots faster and risk being heard or to take the time to set up an ambush properly and spring it so you kill and avoid being killed.

I estimate your chance to kill and not to be killed in GWX mod for five to ten per cent unless you decelerate to zero knots, buddy!

Penelope_Grey · 11-19-07, 01:30 PM

Correct.

I keep saying this, but I'll say it one more time. Quite often, simply sit on the surface and wait for the convoy to come to you (early war). Then fire. I think a lot of people wrongly assume they MUST be moving, well, no.

Many a time I've literally sat there on the surface at night waiting for the convoy to come my way. Then when its near, I fire my shots, THEN I very slowly... slowly... move away and get ready to push the C key at a moments notice.

It is perfectly possible to escape a convoy attack on the surface.

TarJak · 11-19-07, 09:28 PM

Spot on Pen!

@Gorskov,

GWX is all about getting into a good position and setting the trap. A U-boat is an ambush predator, not a chase and kill predator. The chase should be done out of sight of the convoy. You should get ahead of them and then lie in wait. I've lost count of the number of times I've sat at around 18m, silent and engines stopped waiting as the forward escort rumbles by. When you are in his baffles, slow ahead up to PD and then commence the attack when the targets are in range, order the boat to 100m still at slow, immediately after firing and then slide out the back of the convoy as the torpedo hits register. By the time they locate you you are long gone.

All the info on how to do this in on the boards here.

That said I've posted elsewhere on being able to do a surface approach at flank speed and survived after sinking a Large Merchant!

I also have had my share of getting creamed, usually because I make a mistake. Certainly not because the GWX AI is too hard.

I haven't sat down and accurately calculated it, but from practise and patience I now survive more than 90% of encounters in early war and more than 50% in late war, buddy!

What's your hurry?

09-02-07, 01:45 AM	#211
Shelton Planesman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 195 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	How does the AI calculate what depth to drop the charges? from re-reading this it is easy to avoid the charges in the early part of the war - just go deeper than 220meters! __________________ I use Linux http://www.kde.org/screenshots/

09-02-07, 04:13 AM	#213
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,584 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The fact he is pinging does not automatically mean he has found you but rather that he is looking for you __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-19-07, 01:30 PM	#224
Penelope_Grey Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,893 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Correct. I keep saying this, but I'll say it one more time. Quite often, simply sit on the surface and wait for the convoy to come to you (early war). Then fire. I think a lot of people wrongly assume they MUST be moving, well, no. Many a time I've literally sat there on the surface at night waiting for the convoy to come my way. Then when its near, I fire my shots, THEN I very slowly... slowly... move away and get ready to push the C key at a moments notice. It is perfectly possible to escape a convoy attack on the surface. __________________ I SURVIVED THE FIRST EVER SUBSIM WEREWOLF HUNT - and... I actually won the game for the humans too!

11-14-07, 11:58 AM	#217
sasquatch Medic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 160 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Amazing thread Querry - does passive sonar have a difficult time picking up your u-boat when its at periscope depth?

11-14-07, 05:05 PM	#219
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	In my experience it seems to be related to sea state, this is by no means set in stone but when evading escorts in rough seas PD often works better than 30 meters or so, the problem is the conning tower breaching the surface, you don't want that, as a rule I set the depth to 17 meters or so in such situations. It's definitely not a foolproof method, sometimes it works amazingly well, other times you're dead that much sooner

11-19-07, 03:37 AM	#221
Gorshkov Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 604 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Yes, Allied destroyers in GWX mod possess electronic suite probably taken from Dangerous Waters! :rotfl: Yet more seriously: Can you give us some optional way (cheat or tweak GWX mod) to decrease DD sensors efficiency? Otherwise I am afraid many less experienced or impatient guys can no longer use GWX mod.

11-19-07, 05:26 AM	#222
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Do you know the story of the young bull and the old bull? Impatience gets you sunk! That is the whole point of this mod! Learning to think like a RL Kaleun so that you consider whether or not to risk going a few knots faster and risk being heard or to take the time to set up an ambush properly and spring it so you kill and avoid being killed.

11-19-07, 09:28 PM	#225
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Spot on Pen! @Gorskov, GWX is all about getting into a good position and setting the trap. A U-boat is an ambush predator, not a chase and kill predator. The chase should be done out of sight of the convoy. You should get ahead of them and then lie in wait. I've lost count of the number of times I've sat at around 18m, silent and engines stopped waiting as the forward escort rumbles by. When you are in his baffles, slow ahead up to PD and then commence the attack when the targets are in range, order the boat to 100m still at slow, immediately after firing and then slide out the back of the convoy as the torpedo hits register. By the time they locate you you are long gone. All the info on how to do this in on the boards here. That said I've posted elsewhere on being able to do a surface approach at flank speed and survived after sinking a Large Merchant! I also have had my share of getting creamed, usually because I make a mistake. Certainly not because the GWX AI is too hard. I haven't sat down and accurately calculated it, but from practise and patience I now survive more than 90% of encounters in early war and more than 50% in late war, buddy! What's your hurry?