Two Male students watch gunman reload?

[Letum]

It is very difficult to turn your mind from fright and flight to fight. Perhaps it is even impossible in the few seconds it takes to reload.

I think this is a case of them not clearly seeing the opportunity to to take the offensive, rather than cowardice.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Let me say this:

YOU go in that situation and YOU see what you do.

It's a tendency for people to get up on a soap box from the comfort of their home and get judgemental on people in violent situations.

Fear does a lot of things to people, and unreasonable though it may be, I think we can't really understand what may have been going through their heads. I'd love to say I'd be a hero, but until I actually go and do it, it's best not to elevate myself and some great values over the real and the actual.

As someone would say "Let the one here without sin cast the first stone" :hmm:

Totally agree.

[August]

Have you guys ever thought that those students acted like they did because nobody ever told them how they should react in that situation? That nobody ever showed then how a gun works so they could recognize the opportunity when it presented itself?

We do see that the students learned to barracade themselves in their classroom. That might be pure intuition but it could just as likely be from discussions they've had in previous classes about previous shootings. Perhaps fighting back should also be talked about, like we're doing here, so when this happens again people don't have to figure the proper response out on their own.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by August

Have you guys ever thought that those students acted like they did because nobody ever told them how they should react in that situation? That nobody ever showed then how a gun works so they could recognize the opportunity when it presented itself?

We do see that the students learned to barracade themselves in their classroom. That might be pure intuition but it could just as likely be from discussions they've had in previous classes about previous shootings. Perhaps fighting back should also be talked about, like we're doing here, so when this happens again people don't have to figure the proper response out on their own.

I'm not sure it would be propper to tell students that they are expected to charge down a gunman.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Letum

I'm not sure it would be propper to tell students that they are expected to charge down a gunman.

And what if some of those you taught become gunmen themselves?

[August]

Originally Posted by Letum

I'm not sure it would be proper to tell students that they are expected to charge down a gunman.

I didn't say "expected", although I guess "should" is close enough. However at this point that option isn't even being introduced to people and therefore a single killer can get away with lining up 30 students and executing them one by one.

How proper is that?

[fatty]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Thats what I was thinking. Everyone here who has been so vile and venomous seems to also throw around alot of gun-speak and implied expertise on that kind of situation. I figure they all fancy themselves soldiers or have some real training that isn't just an imagined gun club fetish.

I mean sometimes I wonder if I could be beamed into a U-boat and suddenly find a white cap on my head and someone looking at me saying "Your orders Kaleun?", and manage to do it right. But then I spend alot of time playing out those scenarios in games.

The average person isn't a gun expert, doesn't know how long it takes to reload a gun, and heres the other thing. How do they know he doesn't have another gun but doesn't WANT to get stuck with 3 or 4 empty guns?

And heres the thing that nobody is mentioning. Where were the cops? If I'm sitting in a library and this is the 12th reincarnation of Columbine since the movie I'd be thinking "they have a plan, they'll be here any moment".

Seriously guys. Lay off the gun nut mentality. You aren't Dirty Harry, this isn't a movie, and this definitely isn't Tel Aviv so talking about car bombs and drive bys is a moot point.

This is pretty well said. Your last point made me think about another of our popular "hollywood myths" here at SUBSIM that seems to be prevailing: the heroes always win.

I can see what the students should have done but unlike them, I have never been shot at or seen anyone violently die, so I am hardly in a position to make judgments like the OP. I am however sure the experience they just lived through is penance enough for anything they could have done but failed to. That is, of course, if they could have done anything at all.

BTW, as it seems nobody has mentioned this yet, maybe I am wrong, but do you really need to load a magazine to capacity before you can start using it? I fail to really see what is to stop the gunman from stopping halfway and reloading if a pair of kids start to charge him from across the room...

[HunterICX]

Did you know the breaking point between standing their numb thinking ''what is happening , why is this happening?' why why why? to switcht those thoughts to ''I,m going to charge that sonnofabitch'' and get into action is really a big step for a human mind. or at least we think that is because its unnusual for the unprepared.

I guess the guys where in a state of Shock and couldnt move a finger, cant blame them. I would be doing the same thing if something that terrible is happening in front of my eyes


the same as if your on the edge of a Cliff going for a bungee jump
you have to make that ONE step to do it. but it takes Balls to do it.

[Sailor Steve]

On the one hand I agree with the thought that trying to do something is better than standing around hoping you aren't next. On the other I also agree that a typical student isn't going to have the experience to make that kind of decision. I don't fault them for not knowing what to do, and I don't fault them for not doing it.

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

And what if some of those you taught become gunmen themselves?

Or bombers? Or activists? Or politicians? Or the President?

I'm sorry, but that's one of the silliest hypotheticals I've ever read.

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by U-533

They stood there and watched him reload...

2 count'em... 2 Male students stood and watched the Asian mass murderer reload ...

2

2 males... watched the dude empty his guns and begin to reload the last clip of the 9mm pistol

2 of 'em

2 males... maybe they should be called "Perfectly Urban Social Sissy Youth'S"

2

I'm good at field striping then filling the mag on a 9mm hand gun... I can do it in 1 minute flat on a bad day...

So lets say this guys as good at weapons as I'am... I'll give him 30 secounds to eject and fill a 9mm clip

30 secounds ... 2 males watching ...just watching thats all...just watching

"Asian mass murderer" .. "Perfectly Urban Social Sissy Youth's" .. U-533, your thread is pissing me off ..

[U-533]

Well I may make people mad ... but

I will cast the first stone : sin or no sin


This Asian Mass Murderer was whacked out from the start...

2 times arrested for stalking two different women (Charges dropped because he was an alien)

His own professors wanted him out ( but they were told we can't do that it would not be HERE IT IS ... WAIT FOR IT.... "POLICTICALY CORRECT")

His parents sent word he should be sent back home because he has suicidal tendencies

He also turned in essays stating what his intentions were and how he would do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So you wanna get mad at me?

Me of all people to be mad at?

Please...


Go ahead... no skin off my nose...

But look in the mirror and ask yourself if you dare to confront yourself

"Will my "Political Correctness" stop such things as this happening again?"

If you answer yes ... well good luck to ya...



P.S.
I did some checking with people who were there It took the ASIAN MASS MURDERER almost 3 minutes to reload one Magazine

so for 3 minutes he was busy stuffing rounds into his weapons Mag

3 minutes

2 males

Oh BTW it was more than 2 males according to sources it just seems these two wanted special attention... they have it...

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by U-533

I did some checking with people who were there It took the ASIAN MASS MURDERER almost 3 minutes to reload one Magazine

so for 3 minutes he was busy stuffing rounds into his weapons Mag

3 minutes

2 males

First of all after the fact analysis of the situation leads to a different level of awareness than you can have in the moment. Secondly someone above said "why couldn't he just stop halfway through reloading and reload the magazine?". Thirdly, as I said before, how do those two "males" know that he doesn't have another gun and that he isn't just being smart and reloading his gun so that he doesn't get caught without one?

You take the situation out of context, take the collected facts, and then replay it in your head and you get a different experience from theirs. You weren't there, you didn't watch him reload. They didn't get to watch 18 hours of news reports about what happened and boil down the information into minute detail on a message board and talk about how they would so have been the heroes.

Until you live out their experience and do it differently you have no base from which to make such declarations. I don't care if you own a gun, or go to a shooting range, or want to be a Marine. Until you save the day you can't be so certain.

[Heibges]

I was reading "Jarhead" recently, and in the book he wets his pants every time they come under fire, not just once like in the movie.

You have no idea what you would do if you were in that situation, unless you have been in it.

It's easy to say you would be a big tough guy.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Heibges

It's easy to say you would be a big tough guy.

Internet courage is something huh?

[moose1am]

The guy had clips of preloaded ammo in a vest he wore. Don't know where you get this BS that he sat there and hand loaded a empty clip.