I am sick of these planes. - Page 2

Blackfury · 04-07-07, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

It has reached a point where it isn't even fun to shoot them down with the AA gun anymore. During the day time, I am lucky if I have to dive less than 8 times because of planes flying over head. Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. ) but it bogs the game down a rediculous amount.

Is anybody else sick of them? The dynamic campaign becomes almost useless since there are so many bloody planes constantly dive bombing me.

Yes I'm also sick of them... btw can you escape them by diving? My boat(s) never dived fast enough to escape the 1st bombing run

quadraspleen · 04-07-07, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

hyperion2206 · 04-07-07, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraspleen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

That would be really unrealisitic, Japan did not get radar before the end of '43 and even then the radar wasn't working in 9 out of 10 times.

FoddaUK · 04-07-07, 06:29 AM

The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time.

I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position?

As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force...

Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

AVGWarhawk · 04-07-07, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoddaUK

The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time.

I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position?

As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force...

Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

This game gets stranger and stranger. I'm on my second patrol in the Celebes Sea and have not encountered one aircraft:hmm:

FoddaUK · 04-07-07, 06:39 AM

16th Feb 1942. Just got in there and had a task force reported to me travelling ESE from the NE of the sea. It's within range so I thought I'd plot an intercept. Only thing is I can tell how far the TF has travelled along its own plot line because of the start and end points of the aircraft flights according to my SD radar.

Looks like a carrier force to me due to the number of flights. Now if only these planes would leave me alone long enough to be able to intercept...

Onkel Neal · 04-07-07, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skweetis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Thus is historically correct. If you want, I can find examples in some of the patrol reports I have from the National Archives where subs dove 15 times a day due to air cover.

Where'd you get your hands on those? I've been looking for genuine patrol reports to use as reference for my Journal project. Can you order them directly from the National Archives, even if you aren't a US Citizen?

Sorry for the hijack, this caught my attention.

Cheers.

All the ones I have, various subvets have sent them to me. They went to the Archives to get copies I think.

Seadogs · 04-07-07, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skweetis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Thus is historically correct. If you want, I can find examples in some of the patrol reports I have from the National Archives where subs dove 15 times a day due to air cover.

Where'd you get your hands on those? I've been looking for genuine patrol reports to use as reference for my Journal project. Can you order them directly from the National Archives, even if you aren't a US Citizen?

Sorry for the hijack, this caught my attention.

Cheers.

All the ones I have, various subvets have sent them to me. They went to the Archives to get copies I think.

Sounds like a great section for the site

. I couldn't get enough of the ones up on Warfish.

rascal101 · 04-07-07, 05:55 PM

Can any one tell me who's ass you have to kiss to get air search radar, seems in SH4 the US navy was giving away surface seach but keeping airsearch out of the hands of us mere mortal sub captains!

Iron Budokan · 04-07-07, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

It has reached a point where it isn't even fun to shoot them down with the AA gun anymore. During the day time, I am lucky if I have to dive less than 8 times because of planes flying over head. Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. ) but it bogs the game down a rediculous amount.

Is anybody else sick of them? The dynamic campaign becomes almost useless since there are so many bloody planes constantly dive bombing me.

Thus is historically correct. If you want, I can find examples in some of the patrol reports I have from the National Archives where subs dove 15 times a day due to air cover.

I don't doubt your expertise in these matters. You certainly have more knowledge about this than I do. But was this true for just passing Midway? That's when they start flocking like a swarm of gnats.

And if so, where are they coming from? They always attack from the North. Is there a carrier up there? Has anyone gone looking for it or are these planes spawning out of mid air? I'm just wondering....

Thank you!

SteamWake · 04-07-07, 09:01 PM

I just ran a mission out of Pearl.

After refuling at Marshal I wasent 20 miles from Marshal when I started getting hassled by dive bombers.

Where they were coming from is a total mystery unless there was a carrier nearby.

LZ_Baker · 04-07-07, 09:07 PM

Even if the amount of air patrols stays the same, something has to be done about them coming stright at you. What I don't understand is this direct vectoring was not a problem in SH3 (as far as I remember, haven't played stock since it came out). Also, as stated before, the bomb loads are way overdone and the big patrol planes go WAY to fast. And the radar, when it acually wants to work, has dead zones.

As for not seeing planes in the Celebes Sea, I has the S-31/Porpoise there in early/mid 42 and I didn't see any aircraft either. They seem to be too busy flying to Midway...

akdavis · 04-07-07, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Except that's just it, I'm not only off the coast of Japan. It seems that right once you pass Midway island, you get barraged non stop all day long. It doesn't make any sense and is rediculous.

Charos · 04-08-07, 12:36 AM

A few things to note about that map akdavis.

That is the totality of airbases throughout the war they wont be there all the time.

Secondly the radius of operations on each base is 2,800 Km or a return trip out and back of 5,600 Km.

The only bird that can fly over 5,600 Km is the H8K and that is Ferry range IE: Recon-Carrying no bombs.

Normal range for an H8K is 4,800 Km whilst overload range is 7,200 Km.

Normal range for an H6K is 4,650 Km whilst Ferry Range is 6,580 Km.

So on a normal out and back mission under 2,400 Km radius of operations is required IF the planes are to carry defensive and offensive loads.

A 2,400 Km radius circle provides 18,000,000 Sq Km.

If a H8K can sweep a 20 Km path as it flies it will cover 4,800 Km*20 Km = 96,000 Sq Km.

So for a 2,400 Km radius you will need 188 H8K aircraft to sweep 100% of the area.

As the distance increases from the base the POD (Probability Of Detection) drops off.

With an average POD of 50% for each aircraft you would require 376 8HK Aircraft to sweep 75% of the area (Due to the law of diminishing returns).

If each AC had a POD of 100% (impossible even with Radar) you would still need 188 H8K to cover the area.

That is more 8HK AC than was ever built - and we are only talking about one airbase.

DanielMcintyre · 04-08-07, 03:08 AM

Im thinking that they are spawned randomly near your sub to give the appearance of patrol aircraft but are in fact not actually flying a real search pattern. I read that the ship encounters in the game are like this too, they dont leave x harbor and sail to y harbor but are dynamically spawned near your sub to give the illusion of this occurring.

Could be wrong of course.

04-07-07, 09:07 PM	#27
LZ_Baker Engineer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 213 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Even if the amount of air patrols stays the same, something has to be done about them coming stright at you. What I don't understand is this direct vectoring was not a problem in SH3 (as far as I remember, haven't played stock since it came out). Also, as stated before, the bomb loads are way overdone and the big patrol planes go WAY to fast. And the radar, when it acually wants to work, has dead zones. As for not seeing planes in the Celebes Sea, I has the S-31/Porpoise there in early/mid 42 and I didn't see any aircraft either. They seem to be too busy flying to Midway... __________________

04-07-07, 06:29 AM	#19
FoddaUK Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 52 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time. I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position? As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force... Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

04-07-07, 06:39 AM	#21
FoddaUK Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 52 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	16th Feb 1942. Just got in there and had a task force reported to me travelling ESE from the NE of the sea. It's within range so I thought I'd plot an intercept. Only thing is I can tell how far the TF has travelled along its own plot line because of the start and end points of the aircraft flights according to my SD radar. Looks like a carrier force to me due to the number of flights. Now if only these planes would leave me alone long enough to be able to intercept...

04-07-07, 05:55 PM	#24
rascal101 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 769 Downloads: 200 Uploads: 0	Can any one tell me who's ass you have to kiss to get air search radar, seems in SH4 the US navy was giving away surface seach but keeping airsearch out of the hands of us mere mortal sub captains!

04-07-07, 09:01 PM	#26
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I just ran a mission out of Pearl. After refuling at Marshal I wasent 20 miles from Marshal when I started getting hassled by dive bombers. Where they were coming from is a total mystery unless there was a carrier nearby.

04-08-07, 12:36 AM	#29
Charos Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	A few things to note about that map akdavis. That is the totality of airbases throughout the war they wont be there all the time. Secondly the radius of operations on each base is 2,800 Km or a return trip out and back of 5,600 Km. The only bird that can fly over 5,600 Km is the H8K and that is Ferry range IE: Recon-Carrying no bombs. Normal range for an H8K is 4,800 Km whilst overload range is 7,200 Km. Normal range for an H6K is 4,650 Km whilst Ferry Range is 6,580 Km. So on a normal out and back mission under 2,400 Km radius of operations is required IF the planes are to carry defensive and offensive loads. A 2,400 Km radius circle provides 18,000,000 Sq Km. If a H8K can sweep a 20 Km path as it flies it will cover 4,800 Km*20 Km = 96,000 Sq Km. So for a 2,400 Km radius you will need 188 H8K aircraft to sweep 100% of the area. As the distance increases from the base the POD (Probability Of Detection) drops off. With an average POD of 50% for each aircraft you would require 376 8HK Aircraft to sweep 75% of the area (Due to the law of diminishing returns). If each AC had a POD of 100% (impossible even with Radar) you would still need 188 H8K to cover the area. That is more 8HK AC than was ever built - and we are only talking about one airbase.

04-08-07, 03:08 AM	#30
DanielMcintyre Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Im thinking that they are spawned randomly near your sub to give the appearance of patrol aircraft but are in fact not actually flying a real search pattern. I read that the ship encounters in the game are like this too, they dont leave x harbor and sail to y harbor but are dynamically spawned near your sub to give the illusion of this occurring. Could be wrong of course.