I am sick of these planes.

Acmark · 04-06-07, 08:19 PM

I see your point. I haven't been able to complete ONE successful patrol starting in 1941 (kinda sad hehe) but I have always lost my boat due to planes. It seems right after you pass Midway they come out of the woodwork.

Brought me back to the 1943 days in my VIIC...

MarshalLaw · 04-06-07, 08:26 PM

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Mylander · 04-06-07, 08:35 PM

I agree, there are way too many planes IMHO. It would be interesting to see how many subs were actually sunk or damaged by aircraft historically. Or do some reading - on a given day, what were the chances of getting jumped by an aircraft in a given place and time?

Surely this could be modified without too much trouble - cut those suckers by 3/4 or something - pick a number, but in all of my reading, I don't get the sense that IJN/IJA aircraft were such a big problem for US subs.

Mylander

Sceptre666 · 04-06-07, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Except that's just it, I'm not only off the coast of Japan. It seems that right once you pass Midway island, you get barraged non stop all day long. It doesn't make any sense and is rediculous.

Peever · 04-06-07, 08:48 PM

The first modding I did for this game was to scale down the airplane attacks. There just are way too many in the stock game. It's a very easy fix though. Just change a few values in the AirStrike.cfg and things get a lot better.

fredbass · 04-06-07, 09:33 PM

Maybe this will help:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ight=%5BREL%5D

akdavis · 04-07-07, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

Except that's just it, I'm not only off the coast of Japan. It seems that right once you pass Midway island, you get barraged non stop all day long. It doesn't make any sense and is rediculous.

Charos · 04-08-07, 12:36 AM

A few things to note about that map akdavis.

That is the totality of airbases throughout the war they wont be there all the time.

Secondly the radius of operations on each base is 2,800 Km or a return trip out and back of 5,600 Km.

The only bird that can fly over 5,600 Km is the H8K and that is Ferry range IE: Recon-Carrying no bombs.

Normal range for an H8K is 4,800 Km whilst overload range is 7,200 Km.

Normal range for an H6K is 4,650 Km whilst Ferry Range is 6,580 Km.

So on a normal out and back mission under 2,400 Km radius of operations is required IF the planes are to carry defensive and offensive loads.

A 2,400 Km radius circle provides 18,000,000 Sq Km.

If a H8K can sweep a 20 Km path as it flies it will cover 4,800 Km*20 Km = 96,000 Sq Km.

So for a 2,400 Km radius you will need 188 H8K aircraft to sweep 100% of the area.

As the distance increases from the base the POD (Probability Of Detection) drops off.

With an average POD of 50% for each aircraft you would require 376 8HK Aircraft to sweep 75% of the area (Due to the law of diminishing returns).

If each AC had a POD of 100% (impossible even with Radar) you would still need 188 H8K to cover the area.

That is more 8HK AC than was ever built - and we are only talking about one airbase.

DanielMcintyre · 04-08-07, 03:08 AM

Im thinking that they are spawned randomly near your sub to give the appearance of patrol aircraft but are in fact not actually flying a real search pattern. I read that the ship encounters in the game are like this too, they dont leave x harbor and sail to y harbor but are dynamically spawned near your sub to give the illusion of this occurring.

Could be wrong of course.

Charos · 04-08-07, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielMcintyre

Im thinking that they are spawned randomly near your sub to give the appearance of patrol aircraft but are in fact not actually flying a real search pattern. I read that the ship encounters in the game are like this too, they dont leave x harbor and sail to y harbor but are dynamically spawned near your sub to give the illusion of this occurring.

Could be wrong of course.

To my knowledge your 100% correct - The computer rolls a probability of a plane finding you based on various parameters then it spawns just outside visual range and attacks.

The aircraft only has two speeds maximum and minimum.

Im guessing alot of H8K and H6K would have been used in a patrol role carrying no bombs but mainly looking for task forces rather than subs - If they pinpointed a sub they would have then called in an attack.

Will have to read up a little more on that one.

In SH4 EVERY Aircraft if it see's you attacks - no recon - patrol AC at all.

quadraspleen · 04-07-07, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

hyperion2206 · 04-07-07, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraspleen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshalLaw

The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

I was attacked about 100 miles off the coast of N. Queenland last night, by a Betty.

And the batteries don't last long enough to do a full day at PD/3kts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre666

Not only is it not realistic, (The planes just fly to your position, every time. Sometimes a little above or below. )

I reckon they come straight towards you becuase they have radar, perhaps?!

That would be really unrealisitic, Japan did not get radar before the end of '43 and even then the radar wasn't working in 9 out of 10 times.

FoddaUK · 04-07-07, 06:29 AM

The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time.

I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position?

As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force...

Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

AVGWarhawk · 04-07-07, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoddaUK

The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time.

I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position?

As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force...

Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

This game gets stranger and stranger. I'm on my second patrol in the Celebes Sea and have not encountered one aircraft:hmm:

FoddaUK · 04-07-07, 06:39 AM

16th Feb 1942. Just got in there and had a task force reported to me travelling ESE from the NE of the sea. It's within range so I thought I'd plot an intercept. Only thing is I can tell how far the TF has travelled along its own plot line because of the start and end points of the aircraft flights according to my SD radar.

Looks like a carrier force to me due to the number of flights. Now if only these planes would leave me alone long enough to be able to intercept...

04-06-07, 08:19 PM	#1
Acmark Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I see your point. I haven't been able to complete ONE successful patrol starting in 1941 (kinda sad hehe) but I have always lost my boat due to planes. It seems right after you pass Midway they come out of the woodwork. Brought me back to the 1943 days in my VIIC... __________________

04-06-07, 08:35 PM	#3
Mylander Torpedoman Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Bern, NC, USA Posts: 120 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	I agree, there are way too many planes IMHO. It would be interesting to see how many subs were actually sunk or damaged by aircraft historically. Or do some reading - on a given day, what were the chances of getting jumped by an aircraft in a given place and time? Surely this could be modified without too much trouble - cut those suckers by 3/4 or something - pick a number, but in all of my reading, I don't get the sense that IJN/IJA aircraft were such a big problem for US subs. Mylander __________________ Periscope depth... Up Scope...

04-06-07, 09:33 PM	#6
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Maybe this will help: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ight=%5BREL%5D __________________

04-06-07, 08:26 PM	#2
MarshalLaw Navy Dude Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando Fla USA Posts: 174 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You're right off the coast of Japan, what do you expect???. It's no differant than trying to go through the channel in SH3 anytime during the war, if the weather is good you will be jumped many times. The farthest out I have seen planes from the Japaneese mainland has been around 400-500 miles out. If you dont want the target practice go to PD and drop your speed to 3 knots your battery should last until night fall.

04-06-07, 08:48 PM	#5
Peever Nub Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	The first modding I did for this game was to scale down the airplane attacks. There just are way too many in the stock game. It's a very easy fix though. Just change a few values in the AirStrike.cfg and things get a lot better.

04-08-07, 12:36 AM	#8
Charos Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	A few things to note about that map akdavis. That is the totality of airbases throughout the war they wont be there all the time. Secondly the radius of operations on each base is 2,800 Km or a return trip out and back of 5,600 Km. The only bird that can fly over 5,600 Km is the H8K and that is Ferry range IE: Recon-Carrying no bombs. Normal range for an H8K is 4,800 Km whilst overload range is 7,200 Km. Normal range for an H6K is 4,650 Km whilst Ferry Range is 6,580 Km. So on a normal out and back mission under 2,400 Km radius of operations is required IF the planes are to carry defensive and offensive loads. A 2,400 Km radius circle provides 18,000,000 Sq Km. If a H8K can sweep a 20 Km path as it flies it will cover 4,800 Km*20 Km = 96,000 Sq Km. So for a 2,400 Km radius you will need 188 H8K aircraft to sweep 100% of the area. As the distance increases from the base the POD (Probability Of Detection) drops off. With an average POD of 50% for each aircraft you would require 376 8HK Aircraft to sweep 75% of the area (Due to the law of diminishing returns). If each AC had a POD of 100% (impossible even with Radar) you would still need 188 H8K to cover the area. That is more 8HK AC than was ever built - and we are only talking about one airbase.

04-08-07, 03:08 AM	#9
DanielMcintyre Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Im thinking that they are spawned randomly near your sub to give the appearance of patrol aircraft but are in fact not actually flying a real search pattern. I read that the ship encounters in the game are like this too, they dont leave x harbor and sail to y harbor but are dynamically spawned near your sub to give the illusion of this occurring. Could be wrong of course.

04-07-07, 06:29 AM	#13
FoddaUK Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 52 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	The most annoying thing about the planes is the AI setup. Japanese aircraft come straight for your position time after time, and once they get there they go past by a mile or two and then head back home (if they've not spotted you that is). Almost as if they're being vectored straight at the sub every time. I'm currently in the Celebes Sea chasing down a reported task force. Every hour or so a flight of aircraft comes from the line of the task force directly towards my sub's position and then back again... I alway have plenty of time to crash dive to 150 feet or so, thanks to radar picking them up early so I know they've not seen me yet, so why do they only fly towards my position? As for allied aeroplanes, I've watched that Midway battle three times now and I've not seen one plane hit a Japanese ship at all! I thought Midway was supposed to be where the US pounded the Japanese carrier force... Oh and finally... Lancasters? With stars on? The USA only wished they could have Lancs in 1941!

04-07-07, 06:39 AM	#15
FoddaUK Mate Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 52 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	16th Feb 1942. Just got in there and had a task force reported to me travelling ESE from the NE of the sea. It's within range so I thought I'd plot an intercept. Only thing is I can tell how far the TF has travelled along its own plot line because of the start and end points of the aircraft flights according to my SD radar. Looks like a carrier force to me due to the number of flights. Now if only these planes would leave me alone long enough to be able to intercept...