Iron Coffins - is the AI too easy??

jasonsagert · 02-14-07, 08:48 AM

Ok, if you're reading this thread, and you a haven't read Iron Coffins--stop, get your jacket, and go to your nearest bookstore. If they don't have it, yell something at them about stocking crap books, then go home and find it on the internet and buy it.

Read it once, and then you'll want to read it again.

I've literally read hundreds of books, but Iron Coffins is one of my favorites. I've probably read the thing 5 times, and still find myself re-reading portions of it all the time. Damn, if you like U-boats and SH3, Iron Coffins will give you a boner. Yes, you didn't misread that, it will give you a boner.

That's all I have to say about that,

J

RawRecruit · 02-14-07, 08:54 AM

Regarding the AI, I think the DDs should stay around a bit longer, though. Always remember the bit in the Cruel Sea (I know it's fiction, but the author was a RN sailor on escorts I believe) where the captain of the Saltash silently hangs about for hours believing a U-boat is still there, and when the U-boat thinks the enemy has long gone and starts moving they DC it to death!!

Dowly · 02-14-07, 09:00 AM

I too must recommend the 'Iron Coffins', a great book indeed.

The AI in every game comes really down to the player. How difficult he wants the game be? How good player he is? etc.

AI is (and will be for a looong time into future) predictable, after few hours of playing, you can predict what he´ll do next.

But then again, I really dont know how much the AI is improved in GWX... I still havent played more than 1 mission.

jasonsagert · 02-14-07, 09:12 AM

More on topic,

RawRecruit: Yes, I agree. Though the time that a destroy spends looking for you can't be randomized once in game (someone correct me if I'm wrong). So, we're limited to using a program like SH3 commander to randomize it everytime you start, however, for as long as you play, the destroyers will spend the same amount of time "looking" once they've detected you. AND yes, this is not "historically accurate". That said, I believe you can extend this time to however long you'd like, if that's what you want--check the MOD section.

horrgakx: yes, we do have it easy, but attacking convoys, or even getting to them for that matter, in 44' with GWX is still a challenge.

It is a game, and everything that did exist isn't modelled, however, it can still be a challange. Hell, there's plenty of mods that make GWX even more difficult if that's what you're after. I use NVdrifters longer repair times for example. Makes taking damage a lot more punishing.

Anyway, flavor to taste so to speak, but I'd agree--yes, it's probably not as hard as it was in 44' considering that only about 1 in 7 u-boats that went on patrol actually returned.

J

melnibonian · 02-14-07, 09:13 AM

I think AI in GWX is spot on. It's not impossible to evade Destroyers but you have to be REALLY careful. As the years go by DDs get more aggressive and more dangerous as it was in real life.

About Iron Coffins I agree with most people. It's a very good book, and what's making it a must is that it's one of the few first hand accounts we have on the U-Boat life. In my opinion it's a must

horrgakx · 02-14-07, 10:08 AM

I agree about evasion of destroyers etc however Herbert Werner gave the impression that aircraft and destroyers were many times more likely to be there when you surfaced, particularly around the Bay of Biscay, Channel etc... Also destroyers seemed to be a couple of thousand yards away when they spotted them, they weren't picked up before this.

RawRecruit · 02-14-07, 11:18 AM

I'm only half way through Iron Coffins but so far teh real chilling bit is when they're on patrol and there's an absolute flood of constant 'U-XX Sunk' messages.

Brag · 02-14-07, 11:26 AM

One of the features of GWX AI, which I think is tougher than the real thing, is: The DD always knows exactly where you fired from (correct me if I'm wrong) and will use this datum to start looking for you.

Heibges · 02-14-07, 05:21 PM

I have to say that after reading the Uboat Commanders Handbook, Uboat Commander by Peter Cremer, Uboat Commander by Prien, and 10 Years and 11 Days, that I think the AI in SH3 is very realistic.

Also, Herbert Werner comes across as kind of a crybaby. He does something a military officer should never do, and that is blame something that goes wrong on someone else.

He blames his XO for the boat getting sunk by hitting a mine in harbor.
He blames his LI for not being able to keep proper trim.
He blames his Rosen and Doenitz for having to go to sea, despite extreme danger from Allied Radar.

02-14-07, 09:13 AM	#5
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I think AI in GWX is spot on. It's not impossible to evade Destroyers but you have to be REALLY careful. As the years go by DDs get more aggressive and more dangerous as it was in real life. About Iron Coffins I agree with most people. It's a very good book, and what's making it a must is that it's one of the few first hand accounts we have on the U-Boat life. In my opinion it's a must __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

02-14-07, 11:26 AM	#8
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	One of the features of GWX AI, which I think is tougher than the real thing, is: The DD always knows exactly where you fired from (correct me if I'm wrong) and will use this datum to start looking for you. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

02-14-07, 05:21 PM	#9
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I have to say that after reading the Uboat Commanders Handbook, Uboat Commander by Peter Cremer, Uboat Commander by Prien, and 10 Years and 11 Days, that I think the AI in SH3 is very realistic. Also, Herbert Werner comes across as kind of a crybaby. He does something a military officer should never do, and that is blame something that goes wrong on someone else. He blames his XO for the boat getting sunk by hitting a mine in harbor. He blames his LI for not being able to keep proper trim. He blames his Rosen and Doenitz for having to go to sea, despite extreme danger from Allied Radar. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

02-14-07, 08:48 AM	#1
jasonsagert Torpedoman Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 113 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok, if you're reading this thread, and you a haven't read Iron Coffins--stop, get your jacket, and go to your nearest bookstore. If they don't have it, yell something at them about stocking crap books, then go home and find it on the internet and buy it. Read it once, and then you'll want to read it again. I've literally read hundreds of books, but Iron Coffins is one of my favorites. I've probably read the thing 5 times, and still find myself re-reading portions of it all the time. Damn, if you like U-boats and SH3, Iron Coffins will give you a boner. Yes, you didn't misread that, it will give you a boner. That's all I have to say about that, J

02-14-07, 08:54 AM	#2
RawRecruit Sailor man Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 50 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Regarding the AI, I think the DDs should stay around a bit longer, though. Always remember the bit in the Cruel Sea (I know it's fiction, but the author was a RN sailor on escorts I believe) where the captain of the Saltash silently hangs about for hours believing a U-boat is still there, and when the U-boat thinks the enemy has long gone and starts moving they DC it to death!!

02-14-07, 09:00 AM	#3
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,054 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I too must recommend the 'Iron Coffins', a great book indeed. The AI in every game comes really down to the player. How difficult he wants the game be? How good player he is? etc. AI is (and will be for a looong time into future) predictable, after few hours of playing, you can predict what he´ll do next. But then again, I really dont know how much the AI is improved in GWX... I still havent played more than 1 mission.

02-14-07, 09:12 AM	#4
jasonsagert Torpedoman Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 113 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	More on topic, RawRecruit: Yes, I agree. Though the time that a destroy spends looking for you can't be randomized once in game (someone correct me if I'm wrong). So, we're limited to using a program like SH3 commander to randomize it everytime you start, however, for as long as you play, the destroyers will spend the same amount of time "looking" once they've detected you. AND yes, this is not "historically accurate". That said, I believe you can extend this time to however long you'd like, if that's what you want--check the MOD section. horrgakx: yes, we do have it easy, but attacking convoys, or even getting to them for that matter, in 44' with GWX is still a challenge. It is a game, and everything that did exist isn't modelled, however, it can still be a challange. Hell, there's plenty of mods that make GWX even more difficult if that's what you're after. I use NVdrifters longer repair times for example. Makes taking damage a lot more punishing. Anyway, flavor to taste so to speak, but I'd agree--yes, it's probably not as hard as it was in 44' considering that only about 1 in 7 u-boats that went on patrol actually returned. J

02-14-07, 10:08 AM	#6
horrgakx Ensign Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 230 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I agree about evasion of destroyers etc however Herbert Werner gave the impression that aircraft and destroyers were many times more likely to be there when you surfaced, particularly around the Bay of Biscay, Channel etc... Also destroyers seemed to be a couple of thousand yards away when they spotted them, they weren't picked up before this.

02-14-07, 11:18 AM	#7
RawRecruit Sailor man Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 50 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm only half way through Iron Coffins but so far teh real chilling bit is when they're on patrol and there's an absolute flood of constant 'U-XX Sunk' messages.