Litvinenko dead

[sonar732]

I am shocked that Kapitan hasn't inputed something here. :rotfl::rotfl:

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

As I said it is a suspicious way of killing someone but to immediately think it must be Putin and the Kremlin when there is no proof or even indications apart from they way it was done is crazy. The BBC is almost saying the Kremlin did it.

This seems fairly even-handed to me ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6180432.stm ) , have you any examples to back up your statement?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

Well, thats at least what Putin wants us to think. :hmm:

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

What did they have to gain by sending the KGB to try to kill Nureyev? He was a dancer for heaven's sake! He wasn't interested in becoming the General Secretary of the Communist Party. For a while, watching him dodge whatever they threw at him on stage was a part of the show. It's about making an example of publically visible dissidents and ultimately stiffling dissent within Russia itself.

[Wim Libaers]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Sorry if I sounded like I was nailing the Russian government down as the only suspect. I just meant that at the very least, the resources of a nation state were used. It certainly could have been your rogue agent theory. But we hardly know any of the facts. All we know is that a very rare radioactive substance was used to kill the poor guy. IMO, agents of the Russian government (acting on orders or not) were involved.

PD

Very rare, but you don't need much of it either...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium-210

Due to the risk of Polonium spreading itself into the air, however, it seems to be a somewhat messy method to poison somebody.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Sorry if I sounded like I was nailing the Russian government down as the only suspect...

PD

They are the only suspect!

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

None taken Periscope. The sort of thing Putin would do Bort? I don't even think he is that callous. I don't think he gives two ****s about the likes of Litvinenko really. It was more likely he had dirt on someone else.

Putin's cold but not that cold.

He does care. Everyone against Putin these days is dying - assasination style.

[XabbaRus]

Can't believe you guys. It is all supposition, rumour and blown out of proportion.

There is no prrof. I ttook the doctors three weeks to try and figure out what was killing him and then whoops, within 12 hours of his death it turns out to be polonium. Why did it take 3 weeks to figure this one out.

The whole way he was killed has been so convoluted even for a spec ops assasination.

They guy had been in the UK for 5 years. Previous to that he'd written his book. Why now? Hardly anyone in the UK knew who this guy was until a week ago, it wasn't like his stuff was doing the rounds in the general public in the news every few days.

I think this has got more to do with the Russian mafia than the Kremlin. I'd even go so far as saying that maybe it was done because whoever did it new the fingers would immediately jump to point at Putin. Now who in the UK has an axe to grind against Putin, Berezovsky, I woldn't put it past that sum'bitch to do something like that.

[MadMike]

Litvinenko may not have had dirt on Putin, but he obviously P.O.'d someone in the FSB (KGB)- then again, how many Russian journalists have been assassinated since Putin took power?
Due to it's toxicity and relatively short half life, I'm not surprised of it's use by an FSB operative.
I'll guarantee that AWE, MI-5, etc., will find out the source.

Yours, Mike

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by MadMike

I'll guarantee that AWE, MI-5, etc., will find out the source.

And someone at the CIA will say, "Do any of you guys remember when we had people who could find this kind of thing out?"

[Yahoshua]

Or of when the CIA knew about an incident before CNN did?

Anyway, it does raise the question as to who the assasin is trying to intimidate into silence or flush out of their hole. It'd be far less messy and avoid any PR problems by making the death appear to be of natural causes, not many would suspect the death of an ex-spy via natural causes to be an assasination by a foreign agent (unless somebody in the intelligence division had a few hackles raise on the back of their necks).

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Can't believe you guys. It is all supposition, rumour and blown out of proportion.

There is no prrof. I ttook the doctors three weeks to try and figure out what was killing him and then whoops, within 12 hours of his death it turns out to be polonium. Why did it take 3 weeks to figure this one out.

The whole way he was killed has been so convoluted even for a spec ops assasination.

They guy had been in the UK for 5 years. Previous to that he'd written his book. Why now? Hardly anyone in the UK knew who this guy was until a week ago, it wasn't like his stuff was doing the rounds in the general public in the news every few days.

I think this has got more to do with the Russian mafia than the Kremlin. I'd even go so far as saying that maybe it was done because whoever did it new the fingers would immediately jump to point at Putin. Now who in the UK has an axe to grind against Putin, Berezovsky, I woldn't put it past that sum'bitch to do something like that.

No - it is not blown out of proportion by any means. You have a man who is ordered to kill opposition members of Putins party leave the KGB for that very reason and seek assylum in the UK. You have an ex-KGB agent who is investigating the assasination of a female journalist who was investigating the Putin administration herself. You now have a dead ex-KGB agent poisoned and dead from something that could 'only' come from a nuke reactor since it is not found in nature in significant quantities, and is still 'rare' in a nuke reactor. It is not something your mob person can buy you might say.

The high profile of the case and the poison used was not meant to be secret, but it was meant for other opposition people to get a message - this will happen to you if you speak negatively about Putin. Plain and simple.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the fallout from this little manuver is going way out further than the Putin administration had figured however. This is the part that you are saying is blown out of proportion. It is the same part the Putin administration didn't bank on.

Such is the way of life - unpredictable. Sorry for not being politically correct - I gave up on PC long ago, and maybe this is what Putin was banking on - the West to be 'PC' about it and for it all to go away.

-S

[Wim Libaers]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

They guy had been in the UK for 5 years. Previous to that he'd written his book. Why now? Hardly anyone in the UK knew who this guy was until a week ago, it wasn't like his stuff was doing the rounds in the general public in the news every few days.

Well, his publisher certainly has a motive, but those businesses usually don't own nuclear reactors or neutron sources :hmm:

[Type941]

armchair detectives let loose. Of course it was Putin.

I have to say, I only found out about the man when he fell ill. I felt quite bad for him, but as a human being, being sick and then dying. that's the human side of it.

There is the other side, which is his connection or alleged connection to Berezovski, the oligarch who run away from Russia, promised to incite a revolt, took up a new name, is searched by INterpol and is living in UK. That is the crux of the matter - UK is a heaven for all people who run away from Russia, notably Zakaev - the Chechen murderer, who is walking on London streets wearing suits and ties. UK is letting in everyone without ever giving them back to RUssia and I dont know if the now deceased mr. Litvinenko had reason to RUN or a reason to HIDE. We say dont' speak ill of deceased, or speak nothing at all. So I won't say anything, as I said, I only found out about him 1 week ago.

BUt troubling is the reaction or HYSTERIA OF THE WESTERN MEDIA. Financial times, writes 'dead probably because of poisoning by FSB' and the next sentence is 'of course, no proof is available'. So what kind of phucking journalism is this? But people read it, and believe it.

You guys (you who read BBC, CNN, SKY) will believe in this regardless, because the story is so good, it's so perfect and even rides on the new bond film wave, i mean it's excellent for you to follow. It is degrading Russia once's again, at a time when a lot is at stake with an energy charter, with Meat obcessed Poland, ultra Nationalist Riga hosting NATO summit, and all is aimed at putting pressure on Russia to open up it's resources to foreing companies. I mean EU wants only ONE THING from Russia - its resources, and as free as possible. Trouble is - Russians are not indians - you can't cut them out like it was done in NA. So you must push russia somehow to give in to your demands. It will not work (I really hope) and unfortunately it makes things so much worse for EU.


Anyone with a brain and who doesn't have the sheep mentality, can analyse the situation and judge for themselves. Like why would Russia kill the man who is out of the country for 5 years, a UK citizen and do it at a time when there are all sorts of negotiations underway. Why is it that a private citizen of UK, is 'killed because he was investigating murder of his friend Politkovskaya'. Why was he investigating?? Has anyone just accepted that as normal? I mean to me that sounded very strange, unless he is in police or a PI. Which I don't think he was. So this whole thing is very strange. there are all these former KGB agents meeting, some Italian SS guys meeting, I mean comon, this is becoming rediculous and who ever is in charge of homeland security in UK, i gotta say, is doing a very shi!!y job in protecting its own citizens.

But opinion is already made up. The world belives in what they want to believe, because they feel insecure of their own future, because they don't want to be dependent on Russian oil and gas and try to descredit Russia and beat it down, make it give in to their demands. Oh, it's a very big game going on, and I think this is only the beginning. I have a feeling there is much more of these things prepared for Russia to deal with. It's only the beginning. But watch CNN, you'll learn first about it there.

On a personal note: if there is a professional I would be ashamed of - that's a journalist.

OH and one more thing: if you wonder who is this Berezovski oligarch is, he's the man who financed the Chechen terrorists in the war, who was tied to Yeltsin, and generally a despikable human being and deserves what I will not say. And it is disgusting UK is harbouring this terrorist.

[XabbaRus]

Type 941 has summed up exactly what I was going to write in reply to SUBMAN1.