Litvinenko dead

XabbaRus · 11-24-06, 03:20 PM

Interesting that noone here has discussed it.

I have my own ideas, though I don't think there was an assasination order from Putin. I mean he defected 5 years ago, has been irritating but no threat to Putin.

I think this is a Thomas a Beckett situation some rogue officers trying to get brownie points.

11-24-06, 03:45 PM

It seems like a very awkward means of eliminating a person. Lead poisoning is far less expensive and delivers the same message without the target giving death bed speaches.

Very odd situation if you believe the news reports.

STEED · 11-24-06, 04:52 PM

The only thing I can make of it is this who ever was behind it, it's one nasty way to warn others. More information is needed too understand this incident.

Dowly · 11-24-06, 05:10 PM

I heard that the assassin used a radio active material too as a poison... just wondering, how easy it is to get that stuff? Why go over all the trouble getting the stuff if you can kill him in more easier ways? :hmm:

PeriscopeDepth · 11-24-06, 05:24 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Polonium-210

From the above Wikipedia article: "Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year."

Seems to me a nation state was certainly behind it.

PD

XabbaRus · 11-24-06, 05:39 PM

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

PeriscopeDepth · 11-24-06, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

Sorry if I sounded like I was nailing the Russian government down as the only suspect. I just meant that at the very least, the resources of a nation state were used. It certainly could have been your rogue agent theory. But we hardly know any of the facts. All we know is that a very rare radioactive substance was used to kill the poor guy. IMO, agents of the Russian government (acting on orders or not) were involved.

PD

TteFAboB · 11-24-06, 06:17 PM

He was holding on some important secret information as blackmail ($$$) and the [insert culprit here] got tired of playing the game. Of course, he knew this could happen so he made plans to get that information published at the moment of his death. Unfortunately, whoever nailed him only did so because he knew of this and manage to stop it from happening, leaving us without an answer for decades to come, if not forever, unless he's arrested and confess.

Bort · 11-24-06, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorization. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

Who knows? It may well have been something personal, in that line of work you probably have enemies who can make your life truly miserable. But then again, this sounds like the nasty sort of thing Putin would do, maybe it was made so blatantly obvious so that future in the future those considering becoming dissident spies will think twice...

XabbaRus · 11-24-06, 06:38 PM

None taken Periscope. The sort of thing Putin would do Bort? I don't even think he is that callous. I don't think he gives two ****s about the likes of Litvinenko really. It was more likely he had dirt on someone else.

Putin's cold but not that cold.

P_Funk · 11-24-06, 06:54 PM

Well if you'd care to recall Trotsky his assassination might also make you wonder why. Trostky was cast out of Soviet Russia and was a non existant threat to Stalin yet he had him killed anyway.

Putin is a very odd leader. Being that he was KGB I wouldn't think it odd that he'd do it. And I also ask even though there are certainly ex-spooks that would want to do this how could they access such a rare and limited compund without alerting or having the support of a nation? Certainly spooks not associated directly with any nation wouldn't really use such rare materials to assassinate someone would they given the number of more cost effective ones, even ones that would leave a marker?

And I do believe Putin is this cold. Putin is ex KGB. Ex high ranking KGB. To be one of them you have to be pretty much a sociopath.

mr chris · 11-24-06, 07:08 PM

I think the is more to this than meets the eye:hmm: Though we will never know more than the powers that be wish us to know

P_Funk · 11-24-06, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr chris

I think the is more to this than meets the eye:hmm: Though we will never know more than the powers that be wish us to know

Thers always more than meets the eye. Do you think that ther'd be TV shows like Spooks or Bond movies if there wasn't?

XabbaRus · 11-24-06, 07:43 PM

And you think only KGB spooks are just like this.

You can't compare the Trotsky asassination with this one.

Having popped over to the BBC Have YourSay and there are a lot of people spouting off not having a clue about Russia apart from the little bits here and there.

As I said it is a suspicious way of killing someone but to immediately think it must be Putin and the Kremlin when there is no proof or even indications apart from they way it was done is crazy. The BBC is almost saying the Kremlin did it.

P_Funk · 11-24-06, 07:57 PM

Im not saying that the KGB is somehow unique or that this is exactly the same the Trotsky assasination. What i meant by mentioning that is that leaders often view a threat where there is none or see eliminating it as a preventative measure.

I dont claim to be an exert on Russia, past or present. Im also not saying the BBC isn't manufacturing this. I'm just exploring ideas.

11-24-06, 03:20 PM	#1
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Litvinenko dead Interesting that noone here has discussed it. I have my own ideas, though I don't think there was an assasination order from Putin. I mean he defected 5 years ago, has been irritating but no threat to Putin. I think this is a Thomas a Beckett situation some rogue officers trying to get brownie points. __________________

11-24-06, 04:52 PM	#3
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	The only thing I can make of it is this who ever was behind it, it's one nasty way to warn others. More information is needed too understand this incident. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

11-24-06, 05:39 PM	#6
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Or someone trained and with access to it. There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant. __________________

11-24-06, 06:17 PM	#8
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	He was holding on some important secret information as blackmail ($$$) and the [insert culprit here] got tired of playing the game. Of course, he knew this could happen so he made plans to get that information published at the moment of his death. Unfortunately, whoever nailed him only did so because he knew of this and manage to stop it from happening, leaving us without an answer for decades to come, if not forever, unless he's arrested and confess. __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand Last edited by TteFAboB; 11-24-06 at 07:15 PM.

11-24-06, 06:38 PM	#10
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	None taken Periscope. The sort of thing Putin would do Bort? I don't even think he is that callous. I don't think he gives two ****s about the likes of Litvinenko really. It was more likely he had dirt on someone else. Putin's cold but not that cold. __________________

11-24-06, 03:45 PM	#2
waste gate Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	It seems like a very awkward means of eliminating a person. Lead poisoning is far less expensive and delivers the same message without the target giving death bed speaches. Very odd situation if you believe the news reports.

11-24-06, 05:10 PM	#4
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I heard that the assassin used a radio active material too as a poison... just wondering, how easy it is to get that stuff? Why go over all the trouble getting the stuff if you can kill him in more easier ways? :hmm:

11-24-06, 05:24 PM	#5
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Polonium-210 From the above Wikipedia article: "Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year." Seems to me a nation state was certainly behind it. PD

11-24-06, 06:54 PM	#11
P_Funk Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 2,537 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	Well if you'd care to recall Trotsky his assassination might also make you wonder why. Trostky was cast out of Soviet Russia and was a non existant threat to Stalin yet he had him killed anyway. Putin is a very odd leader. Being that he was KGB I wouldn't think it odd that he'd do it. And I also ask even though there are certainly ex-spooks that would want to do this how could they access such a rare and limited compund without alerting or having the support of a nation? Certainly spooks not associated directly with any nation wouldn't really use such rare materials to assassinate someone would they given the number of more cost effective ones, even ones that would leave a marker? And I do believe Putin is this cold. Putin is ex KGB. Ex high ranking KGB. To be one of them you have to be pretty much a sociopath. __________________

11-24-06, 07:08 PM	#12
mr chris Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Herefordshire, England Posts: 3,562 Downloads: 216 Uploads: 0	I think the is more to this than meets the eye:hmm: Though we will never know more than the powers that be wish us to know __________________

11-24-06, 07:43 PM	#14
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	And you think only KGB spooks are just like this. You can't compare the Trotsky asassination with this one. Having popped over to the BBC Have YourSay and there are a lot of people spouting off not having a clue about Russia apart from the little bits here and there. As I said it is a suspicious way of killing someone but to immediately think it must be Putin and the Kremlin when there is no proof or even indications apart from they way it was done is crazy. The BBC is almost saying the Kremlin did it. __________________

11-24-06, 07:57 PM	#15
P_Funk Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 2,537 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	Im not saying that the KGB is somehow unique or that this is exactly the same the Trotsky assasination. What i meant by mentioning that is that leaders often view a threat where there is none or see eliminating it as a preventative measure. I dont claim to be an exert on Russia, past or present. Im also not saying the BBC isn't manufacturing this. I'm just exploring ideas. __________________