BuPers Mod Interest?

[ElCid97]

I've been reading the "rules" and was wondering if it would be fine to start another thread for "Beta" testing links, and leave this one for discussion.

I was thinking of editing the first page of this post since the things in there are not necessarily what the mod is going to include now. There are some changes from what I originally put there.

The link to the current "Beta_1" is somewhat farther down the page than the first entry because of this.

Can I modify the top/first post without any penalty, or should I just make a "Beta" thread?

Sorry if it's a dumb question. Just wanted to know before posting "Beta_2" soon. Didn't want to get on the naughty list for no reason.

I've already finished with the NSS files for the S-18, Porpoise, Tambor, Argonaut, Gato, and Salmon, as well as "tweaking" the special abilities, ranks, crewmember, and qualifications "upc" files and wanted to put it out there once I'm done with the next two or three subs. I may just keep pluggin away and wait until I'm done with all of them since it's not taking as long as I thought it would.

Thanks!

ElCid97

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by ElCid97

I've been reading the "rules" and was wondering if it would be fine to start another thread for "Beta" testing links, and leave this one for discussion.

I was thinking of editing the first page of this post since the things in there are not necessarily what the mod is going to include now. There are some changes from what I originally put there.

The link to the current "Beta_1" is somewhat farther down the page than the first entry because of this.

Can I modify the top/first post without any penalty, or should I just make a "Beta" thread?

Sorry if it's a dumb question. Just wanted to know before posting "Beta_2" soon. Didn't want to get on the naughty list for no reason.

I've already finished with the NSS files for the S-18, Porpoise, Tambor, Argonaut, Gato, and Salmon, as well as "tweaking" the special abilities, ranks, crewmember, and qualifications "upc" files and wanted to put it out there once I'm done with the next two or three subs. I may just keep pluggin away and wait until I'm done with all of them since it's not taking as long as I thought it would.

Thanks!

ElCid97

yes, since you created this thread, you can either rename this one or create a separate thread for the BETA.

good luck in your new venture!

[ElCid97]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

yes, since you created this thread, you can either rename this one or create a separate thread for the BETA.

good luck in your new venture!

Thanks Marco!

I've posted the Beta 2 over on a new post so people aren't rumagging (sp?) around trying to find where the file link is. I'll just keep updating the link as necessary over there with new "beta" files until it's released as V.1 down the road.

ElCid97

[ElCid97]

I've been working on some updates to the fonts in use for the mod. I know it's not directly related to ranks and such, but it makes everything seem to "flow" better with a "mechanical" feel to it.

Still working on final touches, but should have something by this evening on the Beta thread.

Here are some pics so far for this weekend's work:

Main Intro Screen:



Inspired by the many "typewriter" fonts in use for LSH3-V15 (2015 timeframe and the last one I can run on my old Win-7 system), this is meant to give a more "human intervention" feel to the intro by giving the impression someone is "writing" the information to the player.

Jimimadrid's "Big Faces Mod" incorporation:



This is the "Big Faces Mod" showing not just the incorporation of the default "typewriter" font, but also the "new" special abilities as crew positions within the sub. This one is using the S-Boat out of Manila, December 1941.

All the postition, rank, and crew descriptions -- as well as the pop-ups available for all -- now have the typewriter font applied to them. The "Renown" label probably needs to get the next size up, but for now it's not bad. I've left the sub's "data plate" alone since I thought it looked good here.

Main Navigation Screen:



I like this shot since it allows me to show various of the new changes in one picture. From left to right, you have the new radio messages as well as the clipboard changes, the changes to the "alert box" (in this case an aircraft being spotted), and the messages box from your crew that you scroll in-game (I have mine at the bottom near the HUD to get it out of the way).

I left the waypont text alone since it's already using the pencil/handwritten type font for marking the different navigational information.

The date that pops up when you hover the mouse over the watch gives you the date in a "typewriter" font as well, but didn't have it up for this shot.

Damage Control Station (Jimimadrid's S-Boat):



Again using the great mod by Jimimadrid, but this will have the same font effect if using the regular FotRSU install as well.

As you can see, all the equipment and positions are likewise upated with the new font. Again, I left the data plate alone up in the top left.

Award Certificate:



I activated the "Trajan Pro" fonts found in the FotRSU install. I applied the closest size to the certificate and managed to do some formatting as best possible. I wish there was a way to center the stuff, but that's probably way to complicated for my experience since I have a feeling it may have to do with the "ini" file and adding some "display" section or changing some "zone" or "pos" section. That's way above my paygrade now.

I didn't try to use some specific certificate type thing because I liked the "personal" feel you have when the thing actually uses your own name and the name of your boat. Future, more generic versions may feature something more generic but with nicer graphics. We'll see.

Default Torpedo Page:



For comparison, this is the default FotRSU torpedo page for comparison with the Jimimadrid one.

This is for the Tambor, but you get the idea.

I may have to change a few things here and there, but so far I'm happy with it. It shows the new labeling very nicely and also showcases the description changes as well.

I still like Jimimadrid's version better, though.

Again, I'll see what I can do to update the link in the beta-release posting for any testing you folks may want to do.

Failing any negative feedback in the next week or so, I'll just upload whatever I post as Beta-3. It'll be uploaded as BuPers_V1 in the file library if there are no complaints.

NOTE: Because the Jimimadrid mods also modify the "menu_1024_768.ini" file, you MUST activate ANY or ALL of his mods AFTER the BuPers Beta since I'm changing various things based on the DEFAULT FotRSU "ini" file to maximize compatibility with the default installation.

Again, activate BuPers BEFORE any of Jimimadrid's mods or this thing WILL NOT work properly.

Also, please keep in mind that this WON'T work if you activate another mod that modifies that "ini" file. It works with Jimimadrid's mods SPECIFICALLY because his mods are done with his editor so that his mods only change CERTAIN lines in the "ini" file, and NOT the entire "ini" file like I did (or other mods do). The rest of the lines are left alone with his mods, hence the fact his stuff works with other mods.

Thanks to everyone for all the help over the past few months!

ElCid97

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by ElCid97

Greetings Everyone!

I've been messing around with a mod for a few weeks now. I just wondered if there was any interest in it. I just have a few things to work out here and there, but here's what I've done so far:

1. Changed the "worded" rank structure to better represent what was used in WW2. The CWO gets cut off a little with the abbreviation after it, so for my own setup I just have the words without the abbreviations. I may just leave the wording and forget about the abbreviations in the release. Ranks are now:

Apprentice Seaman (AS)
Seaman 2nd Class (S2C)
Seaman 1st Class (S1C)
Petty Officer 3rd Class (PO3)
Petty Officer 2nd Class (PO2)
Petty Officer 1st Class (PO1)
Chief Petty Officer (CPO)
Warrant Officer (WO)
Commissioned Warrant Officer (CWO)

2. Changed the rank symbols in the Crew Management image to use the ones that were used back in WW2. CPO's now have red on blue since wartime material restrictions meant many of them would just wear the normal stripes. Also, there are now WO and CWO stripes on epaulets with the blue "dot" in the middle. These are now in place of the SCPO and MCPO ranks that didn't come out until a little before Vietnam. Finally, the AS, S2C, and S1C ranks are represented by the "cuff" marks that would be found on the lower portion of the "jumper" or "cracker-jack" uniform since they didn't wear any "rank" per say on their uniforms at all. Certain jobs did wear them (like cooks and stewards), but on a sub you either wore the working blues or the khakis. CPO's wore blues with khaki hats, while the others wore them with the white "sailor" hat or - in some cases - with baseball caps. I also remember seeing a color picture of a CPO wearing a khaki officer's shirt with dungaree pants. That may have been a "one-off" thing, but you never know. Because of this, I figured I'd use the "dress" ranks that were generally worn - with the CPO stripes as red because of the aforementioned material shortages.

3. Changed the promotion system as well. You now only promote S1C to PO3, PO1 to CPO, and WO to CWO. Here's my reasoning:

a. S1C's study hard during the patrol to get their ratings. Because of this I just left the standard system in place for these ranks to simulate this. It made no sense to re-invent the wheel and have them promote on their own past S1C without the ability to "qualify" automatically based on their "points" in the sim. In one test I did so far I had a guy go from AS all the way to CPO with only 15% leadership and no qualifications. I realize there would be no way someone would make it all the way up there without any type of leadership (I know, I know, I can hear the Washington jokes already). Since qualifications MUST be done manually in the sim in order to get a "rate," I decided it would be best to just keep the current system of who became a petty officer and who should be kicked off the boat at manual.

b. PO1's are, generally, hard working non-commissioned officers. Going from PO3 to PO1 is a preparation for CPO, so this mod will simulate letting the NCO's, "take care of themselves," so that all you should have a hand in doing - as in real life - is determining who gets to wear the khaki. After that, let the system promote them from there again.

c. Getting a commission is something that is done away from the boat. All a C.O. should have to do is make recommendations. I figure you should determine which of your WO's have done well and determine who gets the commission from there. After that, BuPers takes care of the promotions. NOTE: A Commissioned Warrant Officer was just that: A commission. That's why I figured to do this rank manually, then let BuPers and the system figure who would get the full commission to ENS and beyond.

d. Finally, I figured you will also have crew that promote out as well. You just can't get to keep an entire crew for the duration of the war. It's just not realistic. Once one of your officers makes LtCdr, go ahead and swap him out and replace him with a junior officer from the pool once you get back to base. It's the best I can do to simulate the fact that BuPers would take your experienced officers to crew other boats so that the experience gets disseminated throughout the service.

4. Made changes to the descriptions of the player ranks so that there is something there which gives a brief explanation of the rank as well as what that rank would normally do. This is the "book" that opens up when you click on the hat in the office/base screen before you go out on patrol. There's nothing really special here, but I thought something better than, "Player Rank Here." would be more appropriate for a mod as high in quality as FotRSU.

5. Modified several "Special Abilities" to better reflect the job that would be found on the boat. I only picked the ones that would actually be somewhat "savable" from an otherwise "game-ish" type of setup that reminded me of Atari or ColecoVision (I know, I'm dating myself). So far I've made the following changes:

Passive:
--------

Original UbiSoft Name = New Naming Convention
-------------------- ---------------------
Ability-Master-Engineer = Damage Control Officer
Ability-Sharpshooter = Gunnery Officer
Ability-Torpedo-Specialist = Torpedo Officer
Ability-Medic = Pharmacist's Mate
Ability-Engines-Expert = Diving Officer
Ability-Propulsion-Specialist = Chief Engineer (this is the default one that comes with the boat)
Ability-Theoretician = Training Officer

Active:
-------

Original UbiSoft Name = New Naming Convention
-------------------- ---------------------
Ability-Active-Overcharge = Torpedo Maintenance Officer

6. I've added the Pharmacist's Mate to the default (or maybe FotRSU specific??) NSS_Tambor.upc file. This is only because it's the fleet boat I've been in for a while in the current carrer I'm in. He's in the Damage Control Party and has no qualifications. He is a Petty Officer 3rd Class with the ability as PM3C, though I still have to test if I did that correctly so it shows as "PM3C" and not as "Pharmacist's Mate" like it has been. Either way, he'll get promoted like everyone else, but won't have a "rate" (qualification) like the other PO3's. You can still get other crew members with a PM qualification, but it would be just from the chance and not from default. Once tested better, I'll see about placing him in the other boats' NCC files as well so that ALL the boats (including S-Boats) will have one. Uh, I meant NSS, not NCC. Sorry. Star Trek joke. It's late as I write this.

Here's what HAS NOT been done yet, but that I would like to do still:

1. There are some very nice images of pin-on rank out there. The style is basically the same today as it was back then. I'd like to change the nasty-looking "stripe ranks" in the player's rank book to reflect these pin-on ranks since I don't think I've ever seen anything with regards to subs during WW2 where the officers were wearing anything other than khakis with pin-on, collar rank. If it looks decent, I may look into changing the ranks in the crew management image to pin-on as well. I haven't tried it yet, so they may loose something when compressed down to size in order to fit.

2. Update the medals on the bacground I've been working on. I realized after finishing with the ranks that the medals were still the default UbiSoft versions and not the FotRSU ones that include the Asia-Pacific-Campaign-Medal.

3. I'd like to add more messages that are related to things like promotions, medals, and the like. I've been through the messages file (messages.txt file in the Campaign folder) and it seems there's a type of format used. I'm not sure if the three periods (the ^...^ in there) means that it's the sub you have that's supposed to receive the message. In other words, my question is whether or not it's the same as the "NULL" entry in the upc files that takes info from somewhere else. I've seen messages that are directed directly at the sub I'm in, but I've also seen some of the messages with the ^...^ as well instead. What I'd like to know is whether or not I can have something like: @...@^...^ in order to have the message come directly from my higher command to my sub.

4. I have some limited experience with XML, so I wouldn't mind figuring out if there was a way to read, edit, then save the "CareerTrack.upc" file to automatically scan for certain things. For example, let's say you would like to give out the Asia-Pacific-Campaign-Medal to those in the crew that have been there for two (2) or more patrols. I realize medals are a fairly trivial thing in SH4 compared to SH3, but I would like to try it anyway. I know that there are "if" and "then" and other types of statements that can be used to try and find then change the lines you want. Basically look for "Medals=" and "Patrols=" and then if the value after "Patrols=" is greater than or equal to "2" you change the "Medals=" to the "Bronze Star" ID since that's the one that is now the APCM. I'm not sure if XML is going to be enough for this, but it's worth a try.

- Failing that, you can just add 60-or-so "Bronze Star" medals to the "pool" of medals available in the "CareerTrack.upc" file and then just dole them out after you go back into the sim and save again.

5. I'm going to include the PM3C in the S-Boats as well, even though I realize they didn't have them in reality. The way I see it, however, the fact I may have to put them in the S-Boats at all may be a limitation of the sim itself. No matter what I try to do, the only way you're going to have a medic on board anywhere close to the way you should have one is to put one in there to begin with. I still have to mess with the percentages in the "CrewMemeber.upc" file for the PM. Right now, you'll definitely get a PM aboard down the road eventually, but it's unfortunately a random event. He may even be an officer, which is unrealistic. At least by putting him in the DC team he'll be the rank and "place" he would normally be in.

6. I'm thinking of adding the special abilities I've modified already over to the NSS files so that the skills are there already when you take the boat. The only reason I'm thinking of doing this is to help simulate the fact you would already have these skills aboard. A sub would have a diving officer, gunnery officer, etc. There's no reason these people would be a "special" ability. Now, if you lose one of them to enemy action; that's another story. In other words: start out with what you should have. If you lose it later, then you'll just have to cope until you can get a replacement from the pool.

a. Question: Is there a way to have the personnel available in the pool with an ability but not get one in the boat as time goes on? I'd like to make sure that the diving officer, for example, is actually a CWO or higher and not something that would go to a really experienced CPO or PO1 just because the "math" says they should get it.

b. If I place the abilities in the sub to begin with using the NSS file, then the officer promotions would have to be manual since you would then have to replace the LtCdr's. Otherwise you'd have a boat full of them.

c. Reference "b." above, I guess I could always make the promotion "experience" level much higher for the officers than it is now. By doing that, then the promotions wouldn't be that often and you could keep the officers with "abilities" on board for longer. You would eventually loose one when they got to LtCdr, but you could always add the ability you just lost manually in the career's upc file like the medals, correct?

Any input would be appreciated. I've already been able to message one person and have the go-ahead to use their work for some of the image base files.

The main thing that's time consuming is the testing - even with the experience down to 20-step increments to test out the ranks and special abilities. If I can get this thing together I'd like to get it out to you guys if you're interested.

I was thinking of calling it: "BuPers Mod" if you think is sounds appropriate considering what I'm trying to do.

Let me know what you guys/gals think.

Regards,

ElCid97

Interesting! Definitely would not mind incorporating this into my forthcoming update to my mod for TMO.

In TMO Update, I have modified the ranks, promotions already. MCPO and SCPO were eliminated since those ranks did not exist in WW II. I considered WO's but since there were quite rare from what I gathered, left them out. The CPO's have two more levels of CPO then can be commissioned, if player chooses. All ranks after Seaman 3rd to Seaman 2nd have to be completed by player once crew is eligible.

I
In TMO, the CPO's wear blue pants and shirt and their chief's cap. Officers
wear khakis and pin-on insignia. Although there is an error that gives LT JG's LT bars Ensigns have single gold bar. I've been looking for someone to correct this, I am not sure how.

I am all for the new naming convention.

I've edited the career file before, renamed the crew members as I get tired of getting basically same crew over and over (would love to have a larger roster again, this changed when V1.5 of SH 4 came out, prior versions had randomized rosters, did not get same crew every time start mew career. I have already renamed Petty Officer 1st Class John Smith to Torpedoman First Class John Smith and so forth before.


I eliminated chance of getting most special abilities as find them gamey and arcade like with exception of Battery Charge Fix, something designed by original creator of TMO. I kept the "Ahead Emergency" since some subs did this a few times to get a extra couple knots on surface. This can be a boat saved in TMO with all the night surface attacks when in a pinch, especially in shallow waters later in the war. However, I was not able to delete them outright as it seemed to cause a crash. So when certain ones pop up on crew roster, can be purchased for renown.


Keep up the good work, look forward to checking this mod out.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I've edited the career file before, renamed the crew members as I get tired of getting basically same crew over and over (would love to have a larger roster again, this changed when V1.5 of SH 4 came out, prior versions had randomized rosters, did not get same crew every time start mew career. I have already renamed Petty Officer 1st Class John Smith to Torpedoman First Class John Smith and so forth before.

i share your annoyance with seeing the same names at the start of different careers with different boats.

i know that the names that are listed in the Crewmembers.UPC are NOT used in the game. The names are generated during Career-Start using the CrewmembersNames.upc.

the name-assignment process is proprietary within SH4.

However, i found that expanding the list of names generates more variance of the names. currently i have a couple hundred last names available and it seems as if i no longer get the same names in the same positions when i begin a career.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i share your annoyance with seeing the same names at the start of different careers with different boats.

i know that the names that are listed in the Crewmembers.UPC are NOT used in the game. The names are generated during Career-Start using the CrewmembersNames.upc.

the name-assignment process is proprietary within SH4.

However, i found that expanding the list of names generates more variance of the names. currently i have a couple hundred last names available and it seems as if i no longer get the same names in the same positions when i begin a career.

Nice! Would you mind sharing the list to be used in TMO?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Nice! Would you mind sharing the list to be used in TMO?

sure, i would be happy to be part of your release.

make sure that your Crewmembers.UPC uses this line for each Crewmember:

CrewMemberNameIDLinks= NormalUSNames


the file is small so i did not zip it.

CrewMemberNames.upc

[ElCid97]

It's been quite some time since I've had a chance to even fire up the sim, much less have any real time to do anything with mods or updates.


That said, I'd be honored if you would consider to include this mod -- as bare and basic as it may be -- with the next update for TMO-BH Edition.


I know it's been geared towards the FotRSU mega-mod, but I don't think there should be any issues with it working in TMO-BH at all.


I had persmission from Jimimadrid to use many of his graphic files as a basis for the work I did (especially the crew information and such), so I'm not sure how it would look with some of the default backgrounds found in TMO in general.


I also changed many of the fonts to the best/closest ones there were as you can see with the posted images.


I eventually did an update to the rank images so that they are blue "dungaree" style as well as collar "pin-on" ranks when you see the officers and crew in the different pages.


I also updated the career "book" so that the ranks for the player are also "pin-on" ranks and even added an officer's "dolphin" breast insignia to the page as a sort of "paperweight" to the top of the page.


These were supposed to be in the V2 update, but I can send you what I have for the TMO-BH update if you want. Just give me a few days since most of the busy days are the week since work has been pretty hecktick.


Thanks for all the great work!


Background of Crew Page based on Jimmimadrid's:



... and the new logbook for the player rank:

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by ElCid97

It's been quite some time since I've had a chance to even fire up the sim, much less have any real time to do anything with mods or updates.


That said, I'd be honored if you would consider to include this mod -- as bare and basic as it may be -- with the next update for TMO-BH Edition.


I know it's been geared towards the FotRSU mega-mod, but I don't think there should be any issues with it working in TMO-BH at all.


I had persmission from Jimimadrid to use many of his graphic files as a basis for the work I did (especially the crew information and such), so I'm not sure how it would look with some of the default backgrounds found in TMO in general.


I also changed many of the fonts to the best/closest ones there were as you can see with the posted images.


I eventually did an update to the rank images so that they are blue "dungaree" style as well as collar "pin-on" ranks when you see the officers and crew in the different pages.


I also updated the career "book" so that the ranks for the player are also "pin-on" ranks and even added an officer's "dolphin" breast insignia to the page as a sort of "paperweight" to the top of the page.


These were supposed to be in the V2 update, but I can send you what I have for the TMO-BH update if you want. Just give me a few days since most of the busy days are the week since work has been pretty hecktick.


Thanks for all the great work!


Background of Crew Page based on Jimmimadrid's:



... and the new logbook for the player rank:

Absolutely. Thanks! No rush.

[ElCid97]

Bubblehead,

I believe I just sent you a message, but I'm not sure. For some reason it just didn't "feel" right.

If not, I'll try to do the e-mail thing as well.

Let me know.

ElCid97

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by ElCid97

Bubblehead,

I believe I just sent you a message, but I'm not sure. For some reason it just didn't "feel" right.

If not, I'll try to do the e-mail thing as well.

Let me know.

ElCid97

I sent you a message

[ElCid97]

Yea, the first one I sent obviously didn't make it.

Should be there now.

ElCid97

[Captain Wreckless]

Being prior Navy, it always bugged me that medals, ranks, etc were incorrect and I couldn't do anything about it. Saw this mod and went YEAH! I tried to get this mod to work with TMO -BH but it would crash. I even tried to edit it some but all I did was make it worse. It would be awesome to have this work with TMO.


CW

[ElCid97]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Being prior Navy, it always bugged me that medals, ranks, etc were incorrect and I couldn't do anything about it. Saw this mod and went YEAH! I tried to get this mod to work with TMO -BH but it would crash. I even tried to edit it some but all I did was make it worse. It would be awesome to have this work with TMO.


CW

Currently working with BH to see if we can get this thing to work with TMO. It's probably something in the cfg files, but it's such a LARGE amount of files, that it's going to be a while.

One thing will be to see if the player can start as a Leiutenant instead of a Lieutenant Commander since the majority of the early war S-Boat folks were O-3's and not O-4's.

Down side is that you'd be sent to a desk after reaching Commander instead of Captain. From what I understand, if you make Admiral you get sent home (career end) anyway, so maybe you can still do things as a full Commander and then get sent to a desk at Captain. Not enough testing yet.

I yet to have a career in ANY version of SH4 (default, FotRSU, TMO-BH) where I make it past mid or mid-late-42 before getting deep sixed by either a DD or BuPers.

Maybe if I didn't start in Manila in December 1941 things would be better?

Don't worry, mod's not dead! Just other things to get out the door first so I can help BH with some other stuff on his TMO update.

ElCid97