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Old 01-15-23, 06:48 PM   #1
ElCid97
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Default [WIP] BuPers Mod Interest?

Greetings Everyone!

I've been messing around with a mod for a few weeks now. I just wondered if there was any interest in it. I just have a few things to work out here and there, but here's what I've done so far:

1. Changed the "worded" rank structure to better represent what was used in WW2. The CWO gets cut off a little with the abbreviation after it, so for my own setup I just have the words without the abbreviations. I may just leave the wording and forget about the abbreviations in the release. Ranks are now:

Apprentice Seaman (AS)
Seaman 2nd Class (S2C)
Seaman 1st Class (S1C)
Petty Officer 3rd Class (PO3)
Petty Officer 2nd Class (PO2)
Petty Officer 1st Class (PO1)
Chief Petty Officer (CPO)
Warrant Officer (WO)
Commissioned Warrant Officer (CWO)

2. Changed the rank symbols in the Crew Management image to use the ones that were used back in WW2. CPO's now have red on blue since wartime material restrictions meant many of them would just wear the normal stripes. Also, there are now WO and CWO stripes on epaulets with the blue "dot" in the middle. These are now in place of the SCPO and MCPO ranks that didn't come out until a little before Vietnam. Finally, the AS, S2C, and S1C ranks are represented by the "cuff" marks that would be found on the lower portion of the "jumper" or "cracker-jack" uniform since they didn't wear any "rank" per say on their uniforms at all. Certain jobs did wear them (like cooks and stewards), but on a sub you either wore the working blues or the khakis. CPO's wore blues with khaki hats, while the others wore them with the white "sailor" hat or - in some cases - with baseball caps. I also remember seeing a color picture of a CPO wearing a khaki officer's shirt with dungaree pants. That may have been a "one-off" thing, but you never know. Because of this, I figured I'd use the "dress" ranks that were generally worn - with the CPO stripes as red because of the aforementioned material shortages.

3. Changed the promotion system as well. You now only promote S1C to PO3, PO1 to CPO, and WO to CWO. Here's my reasoning:

a. S1C's study hard during the patrol to get their ratings. Because of this I just left the standard system in place for these ranks to simulate this. It made no sense to re-invent the wheel and have them promote on their own past S1C without the ability to "qualify" automatically based on their "points" in the sim. In one test I did so far I had a guy go from AS all the way to CPO with only 15% leadership and no qualifications. I realize there would be no way someone would make it all the way up there without any type of leadership (I know, I know, I can hear the Washington jokes already). Since qualifications MUST be done manually in the sim in order to get a "rate," I decided it would be best to just keep the current system of who became a petty officer and who should be kicked off the boat at manual.

b. PO1's are, generally, hard working non-commissioned officers. Going from PO3 to PO1 is a preparation for CPO, so this mod will simulate letting the NCO's, "take care of themselves," so that all you should have a hand in doing - as in real life - is determining who gets to wear the khaki. After that, let the system promote them from there again.

c. Getting a commission is something that is done away from the boat. All a C.O. should have to do is make recommendations. I figure you should determine which of your WO's have done well and determine who gets the commission from there. After that, BuPers takes care of the promotions. NOTE: A Commissioned Warrant Officer was just that: A commission. That's why I figured to do this rank manually, then let BuPers and the system figure who would get the full commission to ENS and beyond.

d. Finally, I figured you will also have crew that promote out as well. You just can't get to keep an entire crew for the duration of the war. It's just not realistic. Once one of your officers makes LtCdr, go ahead and swap him out and replace him with a junior officer from the pool once you get back to base. It's the best I can do to simulate the fact that BuPers would take your experienced officers to crew other boats so that the experience gets disseminated throughout the service.

4. Made changes to the descriptions of the player ranks so that there is something there which gives a brief explanation of the rank as well as what that rank would normally do. This is the "book" that opens up when you click on the hat in the office/base screen before you go out on patrol. There's nothing really special here, but I thought something better than, "Player Rank Here." would be more appropriate for a mod as high in quality as FotRSU.

5. Modified several "Special Abilities" to better reflect the job that would be found on the boat. I only picked the ones that would actually be somewhat "savable" from an otherwise "game-ish" type of setup that reminded me of Atari or ColecoVision (I know, I'm dating myself). So far I've made the following changes:

Passive:
--------

Original UbiSoft Name = New Naming Convention
-------------------- ---------------------
Ability-Master-Engineer = Damage Control Officer
Ability-Sharpshooter = Gunnery Officer
Ability-Torpedo-Specialist = Torpedo Officer
Ability-Medic = Pharmacist's Mate
Ability-Engines-Expert = Diving Officer
Ability-Propulsion-Specialist = Chief Engineer (this is the default one that comes with the boat)
Ability-Theoretician = Training Officer

Active:
-------

Original UbiSoft Name = New Naming Convention
-------------------- ---------------------
Ability-Active-Overcharge = Torpedo Maintenance Officer

6. I've added the Pharmacist's Mate to the default (or maybe FotRSU specific??) NSS_Tambor.upc file. This is only because it's the fleet boat I've been in for a while in the current carrer I'm in. He's in the Damage Control Party and has no qualifications. He is a Petty Officer 3rd Class with the ability as PM3C, though I still have to test if I did that correctly so it shows as "PM3C" and not as "Pharmacist's Mate" like it has been. Either way, he'll get promoted like everyone else, but won't have a "rate" (qualification) like the other PO3's. You can still get other crew members with a PM qualification, but it would be just from the chance and not from default. Once tested better, I'll see about placing him in the other boats' NCC files as well so that ALL the boats (including S-Boats) will have one. Uh, I meant NSS, not NCC. Sorry. Star Trek joke. It's late as I write this.

Here's what HAS NOT been done yet, but that I would like to do still:

1. There are some very nice images of pin-on rank out there. The style is basically the same today as it was back then. I'd like to change the nasty-looking "stripe ranks" in the player's rank book to reflect these pin-on ranks since I don't think I've ever seen anything with regards to subs during WW2 where the officers were wearing anything other than khakis with pin-on, collar rank. If it looks decent, I may look into changing the ranks in the crew management image to pin-on as well. I haven't tried it yet, so they may loose something when compressed down to size in order to fit.

2. Update the medals on the bacground I've been working on. I realized after finishing with the ranks that the medals were still the default UbiSoft versions and not the FotRSU ones that include the Asia-Pacific-Campaign-Medal.

3. I'd like to add more messages that are related to things like promotions, medals, and the like. I've been through the messages file (messages.txt file in the Campaign folder) and it seems there's a type of format used. I'm not sure if the three periods (the ^...^ in there) means that it's the sub you have that's supposed to receive the message. In other words, my question is whether or not it's the same as the "NULL" entry in the upc files that takes info from somewhere else. I've seen messages that are directed directly at the sub I'm in, but I've also seen some of the messages with the ^...^ as well instead. What I'd like to know is whether or not I can have something like: @...@^...^ in order to have the message come directly from my higher command to my sub.

4. I have some limited experience with XML, so I wouldn't mind figuring out if there was a way to read, edit, then save the "CareerTrack.upc" file to automatically scan for certain things. For example, let's say you would like to give out the Asia-Pacific-Campaign-Medal to those in the crew that have been there for two (2) or more patrols. I realize medals are a fairly trivial thing in SH4 compared to SH3, but I would like to try it anyway. I know that there are "if" and "then" and other types of statements that can be used to try and find then change the lines you want. Basically look for "Medals=" and "Patrols=" and then if the value after "Patrols=" is greater than or equal to "2" you change the "Medals=" to the "Bronze Star" ID since that's the one that is now the APCM. I'm not sure if XML is going to be enough for this, but it's worth a try.

- Failing that, you can just add 60-or-so "Bronze Star" medals to the "pool" of medals available in the "CareerTrack.upc" file and then just dole them out after you go back into the sim and save again.

5. I'm going to include the PM3C in the S-Boats as well, even though I realize they didn't have them in reality. The way I see it, however, the fact I may have to put them in the S-Boats at all may be a limitation of the sim itself. No matter what I try to do, the only way you're going to have a medic on board anywhere close to the way you should have one is to put one in there to begin with. I still have to mess with the percentages in the "CrewMemeber.upc" file for the PM. Right now, you'll definitely get a PM aboard down the road eventually, but it's unfortunately a random event. He may even be an officer, which is unrealistic. At least by putting him in the DC team he'll be the rank and "place" he would normally be in.

6. I'm thinking of adding the special abilities I've modified already over to the NSS files so that the skills are there already when you take the boat. The only reason I'm thinking of doing this is to help simulate the fact you would already have these skills aboard. A sub would have a diving officer, gunnery officer, etc. There's no reason these people would be a "special" ability. Now, if you lose one of them to enemy action; that's another story. In other words: start out with what you should have. If you lose it later, then you'll just have to cope until you can get a replacement from the pool.

a. Question: Is there a way to have the personnel available in the pool with an ability but not get one in the boat as time goes on? I'd like to make sure that the diving officer, for example, is actually a CWO or higher and not something that would go to a really experienced CPO or PO1 just because the "math" says they should get it.

b. If I place the abilities in the sub to begin with using the NSS file, then the officer promotions would have to be manual since you would then have to replace the LtCdr's. Otherwise you'd have a boat full of them.

c. Reference "b." above, I guess I could always make the promotion "experience" level much higher for the officers than it is now. By doing that, then the promotions wouldn't be that often and you could keep the officers with "abilities" on board for longer. You would eventually loose one when they got to LtCdr, but you could always add the ability you just lost manually in the career's upc file like the medals, correct?

Any input would be appreciated. I've already been able to message one person and have the go-ahead to use their work for some of the image base files.

The main thing that's time consuming is the testing - even with the experience down to 20-step increments to test out the ranks and special abilities. If I can get this thing together I'd like to get it out to you guys if you're interested.

I was thinking of calling it: "BuPers Mod" if you think is sounds appropriate considering what I'm trying to do.

Let me know what you guys/gals think.

Regards,

ElCid97

Last edited by ElCid97; 02-05-23 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Trying to add WIP.
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Old 01-16-23, 12:45 PM   #2
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would be very nice to have this in FOTRSU
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Old 01-16-23, 10:13 PM   #3
ElCid97
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Well,

Managed to mess things up somehow. Somehow I messed up the autopromotion from 1-3 (the default), but not the others.

I'm not sure what I did since it was working fine up until tonight. The maddening thing is that I didn't do anything to the Rank.upc file since yesterday.

This is what I have:

[Rank 1]
ID=NR3rdClass
Level=1
TreeType= USNavy
NameDisplayable=Apprentice Seaman
Image=1
3DClothingIDLink= ClothingE1
XPRequirement= 0
LevelUp= Free
MaxQualifications= 1
MaxSpecialAbilities= 1
AvailableQualifications= NULL
AvailableSpecialAbilities= NULL
GetSpecialAbilityChance= 0
EfficiencyMod= 0.7
DescriptionWhenPlayerHasTheRank=NULL
DescriptionWhenPlayerDoesntHaveTheRank=NULL

[Rank 2]
ID=NR2ndClass
Level=2
TreeType= USNavy
NameDisplayable=Seaman 2nd Class
Image=1
3DClothingIDLink= ClothingE2
XPRequirement= 20
LevelUp= Free
MaxQualifications= 1
MaxSpecialAbilities= 1
AvailableQualifications= NULL
AvailableSpecialAbilities= NULL
GetSpecialAbilityChance= 0
EfficiencyMod= 0.85
DescriptionWhenPlayerHasTheRank=NULL
DescriptionWhenPlayerDoesntHaveTheRank=NULL

[Rank 3]
ID=NR1stClass
Level=3
TreeType= USNavy
NameDisplayable=Seaman 1st Class
Image=1
3DClothingIDLink= ClothingE3
XPRequirement= 40
LevelUp= Free
MaxQualifications= 1
MaxSpecialAbilities= 1
AvailableQualifications= NULL
AvailableSpecialAbilities= NULL
GetSpecialAbilityChance= 0
EfficiencyMod= 1.0
DescriptionWhenPlayerHasTheRank=NULL
DescriptionWhenPlayerDoesntHaveTheRank=NULL


As you can see, all I did was change the names and the values to make testing easier. Rather than showing 0/20 for AS in the Experience area, it's showing 0/0 instead now. It was 0/20 last night.

When I deactivate my mod now, the default value for the NR slot is back at 0/500 for the Experience.

I modified the NR17 in the CrewMembers.upc file to NR2ndClass to see if there was an issue, and it shows the 0/40 it's supposed to show per the entries.

Could it be something with the NSS_Tambor.upc file? I can't remember doing anything with it other than adding the PM3C, but - again - everything worked last night.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

I'll post some pics when I get the chance.

ElCid97
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Old 01-16-23, 10:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCid97 View Post
Any ideas would be appreciated.

I'll post some pics when I get the chance.

ElCid97
well, cid, without possession of the related files, it is tough for me(us) to troubleshoot.

here's something to keep in mind as you re-recheck your work:

rank-id's(ID=NR3rdClass) are used by crewmembers.upc.
crewmember id's(ID= NR17) and carry along the Rank id as Rank= NR3rdClass. the crewmember id's are used by Submarine.UPC.
submarine.upc use their own id's IDLinkCrewMember= NR17 to link back to crewmember.upc.

all of those have to be in sync for the thing to work.

as i said above, without the actual files, this is the best i can do for you.

send me a PM with a files link if you want me to look them over.

good luck.
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Old 01-17-23, 11:09 PM   #5
ElCid97
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Small update tonight. Mainly because it's late and I need to get to bed.

Fixed the rank/promotion issue. Not sure what it was, but a fresh file from the FotRSU original fixed it. I just had to enter the changes I'd already done.

As of tonight:

1. Fixed auto-promotion issues. Crew now promotes to S1C, PO1, and LT. User manually promotes crew to PO3, CPO, and CWO.

2. Rewrote medal citation text for the player's awards so that it's more generic and therefore usable for all the medals, yet still retaining an air of authenticity within the limits of the sim's hard-coded rules.

- Still have to figure out how to change the justification of the text. It still has everything justified to the right side. If anyone knows how to make things "center-justify" that would be great. I think it may be with the "menu" file that jimimadrid's been reworking since the fonts and text are placed using that file, but not sure.

3. Changed the pop-up text of the qualifications so that they are now appropriate to the boat.

a. Says "Rate" instead of "Specialization" in the various menus where the qualification is displayed in text.
b. Posibilities when promoting crew are now Torpedoman Rate, Gunner's Rate, Firecontrolman / Signalman Rate, Motor Machinest Rate, Sonarman / Radarman Rate, and Quartermaster / Boatswain Rate.
c. These pop up when you hover over the qualifications in the info box, the picture box (if rated), and the promotion box when you're asked to promote and then "qualify" the crewman (as text).
d. I know the Motor Machinest rate didn't exist until early 1942, but for now I'm going to do the main mod for use in most of the War. Once done, I'll just do a small update that you can use pre-'42 (Dec'41 and S-Boats) which changes it to just plain Machinest instead.
e. Example: instead of "Specialization: Engines" it now says "Rate: Motor Machinest Rate"

4. Changed the message that pops up just before you get to the boat to commence a patrol from "No Mission Too Difficult ..." to the full 1st Infantry Division motto of, "No Mission Too Difficult; No Sacrifice Too Great; Duty First!" I recognized it right off the bat since it's the unit I was attached to when I served in Iraq in 2004.

I'll post more - to include some screenies - when I get the chance.

ElCid97
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Old 01-21-23, 12:41 PM   #6
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Managed to get a pic of the changes to the background I've been doing. With JimiMadrid's permission, I'm using his background as the basis for the changes.

This is a "key" to help ID the changes I've made. Everything from medals, to rank, to rates and even some of the special abilities. I'm not too sure about the radar one yet since it seems to be somewhat "gamey" to me, but we'll see.

Wherever possible I've used actual WW2 rates or images. The "Diamond-T" is based on the "Trainer" rating given to petty officers, so I figured it would fit for this particular case.

In the case of the others, I've just given a "golden sheen" to the ratings for the enlisted folks since the source file had a nasty looking "weave" pattern for the warrant stuff. As a result, the "Gunner" is actually the GM rating and not the exploding cannon ball emblem. Same with the props and anchors.

Here's a list of what I've done the graphics for (or still need to do):

Original UbiSoft Name = New Naming Convention
--------------------- ---------------------
Ability-Master-Engineer = Damage Control Officer ==STILL NEED TO DO==
Ability-Sharpshooter = Gunnery Officer ==DONE==
Ability-Torpedo-Specialist = Torpedo Officer ==STILL NEED TO DO==
Ability-Medic = Pharmacist's Mate ==DONE==
Ability-Engines-Expert = Diving Officer ==DONE==
Ability-Propulsion-Specialist = Chief Engineer (this is the default one that comes with the boat) ==DONE==
Ability-Theoretician = Training Officer ==DONE==

The WIA is the wounded icon. It's meant to represent a hospital ship, hence the green stripe and white background with the red cross emblem. That was the general paint scheme used during the war for US hospital ships. Don't think the portholes came out too well, though. The railing on the upper side didn't come out well in this particular image because I'm using a brownish tint for a background. The actual image doesn't have any background (it's transparent like the original one).

The KIA is the icon you get over the picture when the crewmember is killed. It's meant to represent the flag as draped over the crewmen before they are sent over the side when burried at sea. It places the stars over the person's left shoulder. As a combat veteran myself, I thought this would be a better option than some skull and crossbones thing.

The ranks are from the internet. There was an image I found that had the ranks in a smaller size with good detail, so I didn't lose much when I shrunk them even more for the mod. You have to squint to see the difference in the WO and the CWO, but then again, it's the same with the LtJG and the LT as well. In-game it's a bit more apparent.

The CPO eagle is actually silver, as it was during the war, so that's why it looks a little different.

All ranks have the Boatswain mark since that's the most "generic" of the ratings. In reality the rating would be on the rank, not on some other area of the sim like we have it here. At least we have it now.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get a screenshot done when in port. I hit the PrntScrn key on the keyboard, but that doesn't work. I'd like to post some pics of the stuff in-game, but apparently only the screenshots you do when on patrol actually work.

Any suggestions?

ElCid97


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Old 01-22-23, 08:04 PM   #7
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First off, my hats off to those that have been posting pictures and even videos for God knows how long. It's taken me the better part of the weekend just to figure out how to take a screenshot!

I managed to clean up two of the ones I took that best showed what I've been doing. I still need to "mod" something in the "save" folder to actually have a deceased and wounded crewmember to see if those things work. Just not sure if you keep the KIA and WIA in port, or if that's just a patrol thing.

The quality isn't that great since I didn't want to make the posted pictures too big, but you can still make out the differences in the crew page and hopefully read the text for the citation.

I'm still trying to figure out how to format the thing, but something tells me it may be a lost cause for now.

The background is used by permission from Jimimadrid and is based on the background for the large faces. It this is the one for 1600 x 900, so as long as the ratio is the same (1920 x 1080) on other setups, it SHOULDN'T be an issue. After all, the image is 2048 x 512, which is big when you think about it.

Here's the crew page with the new ranks, quals, and special ability icons where applicable:





Here's the medal page for the player with the new citation wording:





I know, Commander Censored used his real name. I never thought I'd post any of this online. The thing shows the name, I promise.

Don't know if I'll have time to do anything during the week, but we'll see.

Regards,

ElCid97
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Old 01-24-23, 08:39 AM   #8
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Looks great. Looking forward to this.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo
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Old 01-27-23, 08:40 PM   #9
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Small update prior to posting a Mediafire link for beta. And when I mean beta, I mean BBBEETTTAAA (all I can promise is that it won't harm the computer).

So far I've been able to get most things worked out thanks to the help of MANY on this forum. THANK YOU!

The beta will just be what I've finished that I know won't really go farther. It will be the messages for the radio; the "menu.txt" that changes the rates and names for them as well as the medal citation wording; and finally the CrewManagement background based on Jimimadrid's work, with permission.

I'm still working on Ranks, Quals, the NSS_Tambor file, and the Special Abilities. These are the text files (upc's). The Tambor is the first of a few (understatement with sarcasm intended when I say "few").

I just have a few questions based on some observations regarding the Special Abilities, especially since I would like to use them as a way to help you decide who gets transferred/promoted off the ship.

Method #1
----------

I've managed to increase the max number of abilities for the player to 6 in order to match the number I was able to "save" by editing the names and percentages. These include the Cheif Engineer (default one given with the gas can thing), Torpedo Officer (the maintenance one that helps with duds), Gunnery Officer (the supposed sharpshooter thing), Diving Officer (the one that gets you under quicker), Training Officer (the one that helps with renown and crew morale), and Damage Control Officer (fixes destroyed items and flooding). My reasoning is that you're going to go to war with these people on board as part of the crew anyway, so why not have them from the get-go?

My question is now this: since you (the player) now has the ability, if a crew member gets the ability down the road does that multiply it's effect? So if you normally have a +2 of a "widget," for example, does it mean you now have a +4 if a single crew member gets that particular ability?

If so, then my whole approach to these things will have to change, especially since I'm using them to basically let you know who needs to get off the boat. Think of it as a "semi-auto" promote off/transfer off cue that lets you know it's time to part ways with John Doe.

That's why I'm not including the rank.upc changes, etc., just yet in the beta when it comes out. I'm just not sure this approach is going to work well.

Method #2
----------

Another approach which I've been kicking around: Would it be better to place the Special Abilities the same way as the way I did the Pharmacit's Mate (not releasing just yet, but it DOES work) so that you have them as individual crew members from the get-go?

In other words, the NSS file and the CrewMember files would have them as part of the crews like the default gas can thing now. This would mean no special abilities whatsoever for the player, though, just to keep things "fair" since I'm not sure about the whole "ability increase" thing yet.

If I did it this second way, I'm thinking I would have to play with the "chance" of getting the ability. Right now it's at 10% (0.1). I'm thinking it would probably be better to have it go up a little to maybe 0.25 or 0.3?

I was even thinking of doing a "50/50" chance. That way there's a good chance either way you would get another crew member with the same ability, so you would then know the "older" one on your crew would be the one that would have to transfer out, having been replaced by the new one.

I figured this would probably be a better way to do things, but it also means I'd have to try it out the Tambor first and then see about the other boats. Remember, once the rank file is done you'll be manually promoting only a few ranks since "BuPers" would automatically be promoting the rest while you're on patrol -- hence the "cue" that they'll be off the ship when you get back.

The only "off" thing would be if you ended up with a special ability in a crew member you just promoted in-base. Then you would just keep the new one and dismiss the other one right then and there.

If you think it's better the second way, would someone be willing to help with the coding of the other boats after I finish the Tambor? I'm almost done with the CrewMember file, so that wouldn't be an issue. I'd just post it with the Tambor file so you would have a "template" then be able to "have at it" until they were done.

Link will be up sometime tomorrow with, again, just the image and the two other files. At least it'll be something, right?

Regards,

ElCid97
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Old 01-27-23, 10:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCid97 View Post
Small update prior to posting a Mediafire link for beta. And when I mean beta, I mean BBBEETTTAAA (all I can promise is that it won't harm the computer).

So far I've been able to get most things worked out thanks to the help of MANY on this forum. THANK YOU!

The beta will just be what I've finished that I know won't really go farther. It will be the messages for the radio; the "menu.txt" that changes the rates and names for them as well as the medal citation wording; and finally the CrewManagement background based on Jimimadrid's work, with permission.

I'm still working on Ranks, Quals, the NSS_Tambor file, and the Special Abilities. These are the text files (upc's). The Tambor is the first of a few (understatement with sarcasm intended when I say "few").

I just have a few questions based on some observations regarding the Special Abilities, especially since I would like to use them as a way to help you decide who gets transferred/promoted off the ship.

Method #1
----------

I've managed to increase the max number of abilities for the player to 6 in order to match the number I was able to "save" by editing the names and percentages. These include the Cheif Engineer (default one given with the gas can thing), Torpedo Officer (the maintenance one that helps with duds), Gunnery Officer (the supposed sharpshooter thing), Diving Officer (the one that gets you under quicker), Training Officer (the one that helps with renown and crew morale), and Damage Control Officer (fixes destroyed items and flooding). My reasoning is that you're going to go to war with these people on board as part of the crew anyway, so why not have them from the get-go?

My question is now this: since you (the player) now has the ability, if a crew member gets the ability down the road does that multiply it's effect? So if you normally have a +2 of a "widget," for example, does it mean you now have a +4 if a single crew member gets that particular ability?

If so, then my whole approach to these things will have to change, especially since I'm using them to basically let you know who needs to get off the boat. Think of it as a "semi-auto" promote off/transfer off cue that lets you know it's time to part ways with John Doe.

That's why I'm not including the rank.upc changes, etc., just yet in the beta when it comes out. I'm just not sure this approach is going to work well.

Method #2
----------

Another approach which I've been kicking around: Would it be better to place the Special Abilities the same way as the way I did the Pharmacit's Mate (not releasing just yet, but it DOES work) so that you have them as individual crew members from the get-go?

In other words, the NSS file and the CrewMember files would have them as part of the crews like the default gas can thing now. This would mean no special abilities whatsoever for the player, though, just to keep things "fair" since I'm not sure about the whole "ability increase" thing yet.

If I did it this second way, I'm thinking I would have to play with the "chance" of getting the ability. Right now it's at 10% (0.1). I'm thinking it would probably be better to have it go up a little to maybe 0.25 or 0.3?

I was even thinking of doing a "50/50" chance. That way there's a good chance either way you would get another crew member with the same ability, so you would then know the "older" one on your crew would be the one that would have to transfer out, having been replaced by the new one.

I figured this would probably be a better way to do things, but it also means I'd have to try it out the Tambor first and then see about the other boats. Remember, once the rank file is done you'll be manually promoting only a few ranks since "BuPers" would automatically be promoting the rest while you're on patrol -- hence the "cue" that they'll be off the ship when you get back.

The only "off" thing would be if you ended up with a special ability in a crew member you just promoted in-base. Then you would just keep the new one and dismiss the other one right then and there.

If you think it's better the second way, would someone be willing to help with the coding of the other boats after I finish the Tambor? I'm almost done with the CrewMember file, so that wouldn't be an issue. I'd just post it with the Tambor file so you would have a "template" then be able to "have at it" until they were done.

Link will be up sometime tomorrow with, again, just the image and the two other files. At least it'll be something, right?

Regards,

ElCid97
too many questions.......

i'll share what i have experienced rather than attempt to answer each question. by blindly searching through the fog, we have learned many things in the last 15 years but there is much that remains hidden by the fog.

the skills are the things that give crewmembers the capabilities to do things better or worse than others.
IntelligenceCoef, LeadershipCoef, MechanicalCoef, ElectricsCoef, GunsCoef, WatchmanCoef
skills are assigned through the crewmembers.upc and are expressed as percentages between 0 and 1.0.
skills can be increased only by promotion (ranks.upc).
experience does not increase skill, which is not how it should work, but it does.
i have read somewhere in the SH4 archives that a skill should never be greater than 1.0 (or 100%).

special abilities are skill multipliers, except that it does not seem to be a 1:1 multiplier. by that i mean, i have not been able to figure out exactly, what effect any special ability value has on a skill except that it does have a positive effect.
for example, if you set the TorpedoDamage value to 10, does it increase the hit power by 10%? impossible to determine.
if you set the DarknessPenalty to -10 does the watchman have 10% more nighttime visibility, impossible to determine.

so, i hope this helps at least a little in your quest.
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Old 01-28-23, 09:27 AM   #11
ElCid97
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Thanks for the quick response, KaleunMarco, I really appreciate it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
the skills are the things that give crewmembers the capabilities to do things better or worse than others.
That's what I thought, so just wanted to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
skills are assigned through the crewmembers.upc and are expressed as percentages between 0 and 1.0.
I was wondering about this -- especially since I've seen officers with values of 140+ in leadership. I need to pay attention to this to see if this is because of some special ability or just time. If it is because of time (i.e. the factor value for a skill, regardless of skill, that is affected by the compartment's respective value in the sub's NSS file), then you can probably reference this as a factor to decide when to "transfer" a crew member.

As of now, if I see any of these above 100 in the crew management, I just swap them out to the pool. Unfortunately, there aren't enough replacements of similar rank half the time. Either that, or I don't have enough renown to get the crew I need to replace him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
skills can be increased only by promotion (ranks.upc).
In "one shot"-style, yes. These are the +40 leadership, 20% guns, etc., that I've seen in the file which increase the crew members skill by the amount written when you promote them.

They can also increase (albeit slowly) through compartment factors in the NSS file for the sub, from what I've seen.

I'm still debating whether to keep the changes I've done here, or just stay with the "default" values from the FotRSU version (1.8) that I started from. I just don't know if getting a promotion should boost your leadership by 40%, or if it should be more along the lines of the rest of the stuff in there. I think it's more like 20% across the board for the other skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
special abilities are skill multipliers, except that it does not seem to be a 1:1 multiplier. by that i mean, i have not been able to figure out exactly, what effect any special ability value has on a skill except that it does have a positive effect.
That's why I was thinking of using the special abilities more as "markers" to decide who goes and who stays. I'm just worried that if I have the values added to the player via the rank.upc file, then when a crew member gets the ability through promotion there will be a "superman" effect with the ability getting multiplied by some unknown factor that only UbiSoft could answer.

If I do it the second way (Method #2), then you don't have the multiplier when/if you loose the crew member as part of the crew. Which is why you wouldn't transfer that particular crew member until another one got the ability through promotion. That way, if there was a "superman" effect, it would only be for the remainder of the patrol.

If you keep an eye on them -- and an eye on those values for skills that go over 100% -- you should have a fairly good idea of what crew members to swap out when you get back to port.

That's what I was hoping to do with BuPers -- basically a way to somewhat help the player decide how to implement transfers and crew management since we don't have any way to actually do that right now.

There was a user that put out a way to do this with dice and a count, but that seems just TOO random.

The other stuff like better rank images, rates, messages, etc., was meant to be more of the "icing" to make it look nice.

Guess I'm going to send out the icing before the cake, sort of.

ElCid97
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Old 01-28-23, 10:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCid97 View Post

That's why I was thinking of using the special abilities more as "markers" to decide who goes and who stays. I'm just worried that if I have the values added to the player via the rank.upc file, then when a crew member gets the ability through promotion there will be a "superman" effect with the ability getting multiplied by some unknown factor that only UbiSoft could answer.
you can make this work by setting the values in Special Abilities to low integers.

not sure if you are on to this yet, but the value ranges in Special Abilities are positive integer, negative integer and on/off.
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Old 01-28-23, 11:14 AM   #13
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As promised, here's what I'm comfortable with releasing for now.

Here's my setup so you can compare:

1. Base version I'm working with is SH4: Gold (from CD installation) "patched" with FotRSU 1.8.

2. Here's my mod listing:

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v1.8
101_FotRSUv18_FixPak
Nippon_Maru_v1.9b_FotRSU
Nihon Kaigun v1.3_FotRSU
Combined Roster
399_NoScrollNavMap
451_TMOstyle_NavMapDots
451a_TMOstyle_NavMapDots_Nippon_Maru
451b_TMOstyle_NavMapDots_Nihon_Kaigun
452_TMOstyle_NavMapShipMarks
304_NoJapaneseAirRadar
901_Strategic_Map_Symbols
Fleetboat_Interior-Officers_Quarters_FOTRSU_v1.7_EN
FI-OQ_FotRSU_v1.8f_upcPatch
650_OriginalFOTRS_Dudz
454c_EasyAOB_InputTargetDistanceOnTBT
901a_LukeFF_Flags_final
909_Gramophone_LeadAngles
Jimimadrid SubManagement
Jimimadrid Optics
454c_EasyAOB_InputTargetDistanceOnTBT
... activate "900_Bupers_Mod_Beta_1" here

I've used a "sequence" from one of the posts I read on here somewhere as a base, but you get the idea. I think we're actually supposed to do the "400" series before the "600" series. I figured I'd try the way this one person had his setup done and it seemed to work well for me as well.

The Gramophone is something I did to have the lead angles in the gramophone instead of the speeds that are there now. The "909" is just something I came up with. No specific reasoning other than to try and keep things with the "series" numbers. I just need to change one formula on the image itself and I can release that one for testing as well.

Nothing to do with this mod, though.

Here's the BuPers Beta #1:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/bwr0o...Beta_1.7z/file

Still working on the "upc" files. I'm hoping to have them scubbed by the end of the weekend.

The only NSS file done right now will be the "NSS_Tambor.upc" file. It only has the PM3C, which in turn is based on the crew file. If I can do a quick edit of the other boats to just add the PM3C postition in there, I will. He's already in the crew file, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

Also, for now the player will have all the special abilities once the "upc" files are scrubbed. I'll slowly convert things to the "Method #2" I described above, but for now it'll be "Method #1" since that's the simpler of the two.

These will all be "beta" until more testing gets done by the community.

Again, for now the only files are the image and the two text files.

Let me know how this is so far.

ElCid97
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Old 01-28-23, 11:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
you can make this work by setting the values in Special Abilities to low integers.

not sure if you are on to this yet, but the value ranges in Special Abilities are positive integer, negative integer and on/off.
Just saw this after I posted the link to the beta version.

I wasn't aware of a negative or an "ON/OFF" option. How would I go about doing this? I was actually just hoping to do a low number with Method #2.

Thanks!
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Old 01-28-23, 11:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCid97 View Post
Just saw this after I posted the link to the beta version.

I wasn't aware of a negative or an "ON/OFF" option. How would I go about doing this? I was actually just hoping to do a low number with Method #2.

Thanks!
i do not remember all of them so let me give you an example and you will have to dig up the remainder.

CanRepairDestroyedItems

this is one of the abilities that is either on or off.
to enable it, you must include it in the list of AbilityTypes and then insert a one in the appropriate value position within AbilityValues.
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