Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MaDef

How many times do we have to tell you, before you get it into your thick skulls, We see this as a regional issue, and we really really don't want anything to do with it.

Then why do you try to blackmail Ukraine into giving you de facto control over much of its ressource deposits, why are you "negotiating" with Putin over lands and over nuclear powerplants, and why do you try to buy up the remains of Norht Stream 2 and bring Europe into dependency from russian gas again that to transport you then will control, and cash fees over?

You want to have anything to do with it, and the reason for this as profane as it is omnipresent in all of history: MONEY.

[mapuc]

Markus

[Skybird]

Trump needs a quick success to fulfill his promise that he is the man to end the war quick and soon, "in 24 hours". On his race to the first of many peace Nobels, he is already delayed, and that is something his temper will not take well. Its just a question of time before he starts playing mean and dirty on Zelensky again. He does not really care for what becomes of Ukraine, he only wants to support his own facade, and, if possible, snatch some gold coins while doing so. Trump first. Gold second. Ukraine last.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Markus

^ If only Trump knew that. Ahem.

[mapuc]

Some thoughts on this ceasefire deal.

Putin have put up some demands before saying yes. My thoughts are after both parties have agreed on a 30 days ceasefire.

Both side will rearrange their troops and material. Who wouldn't if the chances are there.

I think as soon the 30 days ceasefire is over-Russia will with newly fresh soldiers and weapons conduct a massive assault on most of the frontline.

I don't think Ukraine has the manpower or weapons to do the same-They can conduct massive Drone and missile attacks on Russian military and industrial complex though.

Markus

[mapuc]

I truly understand Ukraines demands for peace



Markus

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by MaDef

How many times do we have to tell you, before you get it into your thick skulls, We see this as a regional issue, and we really really don't want anything to do with it.

I wanted to offer a counterpoint to your post. I can easily understand your position and perhaps those of my fellow Americans. No one wants to keep pumping money into what is perceived as a losing effort. Trump and Company have moved swiftly to root out tax payer waste, fraud and outright abuse. They have moved quickly to right the Economy and remove dangerous invaders. These are all good things in my book. These are the things that the vast majority of American's voted for. We never voted to hurt our friends and certainly don't want to hurt them

However, with regards to Ukraine, our approach in my opinion, is all wrong. The U.S in 1994 in conjunction with England guaranteed the security of the Ukraine. France signed a separate but similar agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Both the U.S and England realize the folly of their trusting Russia and entering into this agreement. However, while the U.S wants to pull the rug out from under Ukraine, The U.K has remained steadfast by living up to it's Security Agreement. The U.K like the U.S has it's many Issues. However, unlike the U.S, the U.K knows how to honor it's agreements. If the U.S didn't want to be responsible for Ukraine, it never should have entered into any agreements making the U.S responsible. It's that simple.

Perhaps I'm naive but I firmly believe that you are only as good as your word. If you say you're going to do something and shake hands in agreement, then your word is your bond. I would bet you're a man of your word as well. If your friends know you are not a man of your word, in this case, the U.S, why would they ever trust you again ??

Putin wants to reclaim all of the former Soviet Union including Poland and part of Germany. He has said this. Europe understands the threat posed by Putin and Russia, apparently better than we do. Is Putin any different than Hitler was ? We have a chance to stand with our NATO allies and take the lead and say, not on my watch. All relationships are based on trust and respect. In the case of Europe. the long standing relationships we have had with Germany, England and other European Countries have been based on these aspects and also shared Values. Self Determination and Freedom are and remain some of those core Values.

If the U.S has issues with financing NATO and commerce imbalance, then it should sit down with it's friends and NATO members and work it out. Friends resolve their differences all the time. Should this be any different ?

[Jimbuna]

^ Very well put sir

[Jimbuna]

[Dargo]

There are talks and phone calls, but no formal negotiations. Moreover, it is customary for negotiations to begin, once hostilities have ceased. This is not the case. What exactly are negotiations about? What is the agenda, what is the expected outcome? What should a peace settlement look like, and who are the parties? What we are seeing now has little to do with negotiation. Trump throws a stone into the pond and watches the waves go. The Americans were cowardly. They didn't want trouble and said, ‘let's find another way to solve this.’ But it is not just Biden who is losing, it is the United States that is losing. And Trump wants to camouflage that. I think he started these ‘negotiations’ on Ukraine to avoid being seen as the president of a losing country. He is trying to prop up Putin so that it looks like he himself is on the winning side. That is what makes his behaviour so pathetic.

The US never said it wanted Ukraine to win the war. The point was that neither side should lose the war. But that is not how wars are fought. You don't start a war not to lose, you start it to win. Even if you get involved in a war, you have to want to win. A win-win situation is impossible. There is no middle ground. That coalition should have been formed on the first day of the war. But nothing was done. Every European aid package to Ukraine was accompanied in the West by a torrent of propaganda: we should not spend so much money on the war. It is not our war. That sound resounded in the US, but also in Europe. Every time sanctions are discussed, there are politicians who argue that there should be a peaceful solution. People like Orbán, who become louder and louder as they hope for a reward from Putin or from Trump.

Russia and Ukraine are the only ones involved. The rest are bystanders. Clowns, playing with lives. People are dying every day, because you have promised to stand by them until this war can be ended on terms they deem acceptable. Russia is not interested in concessions. Russia is interested in Ukraine. And Putin wants peace on his terms. Gaining territory is not even the most important thing. It is about influence. He wants the US and Europe to recognise Russia's sphere of influence and admit that Russia is stronger. He wants it to be recognised that he can do what he wants in the former Soviet region, in Eastern Europe and perhaps also in Western Europe. But Putin will demand more and more, because food makes you hungry. Crimea, for example, has long been Russian, according to Putin. As soon as you give in, he will demand something else. Something that does not yet belong to him.

Clearly, Trump is suffering from delusions. After all, how can he credibly confront China anymore? How are you going to show resolve, courage and strength if you cannot even tame Russia, which is much weaker than China? Perhaps Trump thinks that by appeasing Russia, he is proving to China that he doesn't care about anything, but he forgets that the Chinese think in generations, they have the patience of a monk in his cave knowing that in the end, enlightenment is a given.

[MaDef]

Life moves on and interests change over time, that memorandum was mainly to keep Nuclear weapons from a possible unstable Government. And both the U.S. & Russia signed on as Guarantor's along with the U.K.


Not looking to rehash the history of the area, suffice to say there are no nuclear weapons involved now, and we, (the U.S.) are tired of being the worlds policeman and getting kicked in the teeth for our efforts.

the Same goes with NATO. The EU is (or should be) strong enough to stand on it's own two feet. It's time for the U.S. to move on and get our own house in order.

[Jimbuna]

Vance and Rubio arrive at White House to watch Trump and Putin talk - CNN

U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio have been at the White House since the morning when Donald Trump and dictator Putin were scheduled to speak.

This is reported by CNN, Censor.NET reports.

"The conversation was supposed to take place between nine and eleven in the morning (from 15 to 17:00 Kyiv time - Ed.)," the media outlet writes.

No other details are currently available.

The White House said that the conversation between Trump and Putin had already begun. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541861

"We know what it means to be occupied," Macron says that France vows to continue supporting Ukraine and strengthening its army

French President Emmanuel Macron assured that his country would continue to support Ukraine in countering Russia's full-scale aggression.

He said this while speaking at the air base in Luxeuil-Saint-Sauveur, BFMTV reports, Censor.NET informs.

"We will continue to support Ukraine in the face of an aggressive war, because we know what it means to be occupied," the French president said.

Macron also announced his intention to strengthen the country's military potential. The politician noted that the world is becoming more and more dangerous, and therefore France must respond to the challenges.

"We will increase and accelerate the order of Rafale fighter jets," the French president said, adding that the French army is "the most effective on the continent." Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541866

[Jimbuna]

Trump is serious about talking to Putin and wants to make peace - White House

On the evening of March 18, US President Donald Trump will hold talks with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. The head of the White House is serious.

This was stated by White House Deputy Press Secretary Harrison Fields, Censor.NET reports.

He was asked whether Putin would play "hardball" with Trump during today's phone call.

According to Fields, Putin respects Trump because he "understands who he is dealing with."

According to him, the US president and the Russian dictator "have a very good working relationship in which both people respect each other."

The White House deputy press secretary added that Putin "realized" that he would not be able to "play the same games with Trump" as with George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden.

"He (Trump - ed.) gave Ukrainians Javelins when President Obama gave them pillows and blankets. President Trump is serious, and in the end, he wants to achieve peace," Fields emphasized. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541839

Bundestag approves constitutional amendments unlocking €3 billion in military aid for Ukraine

Germany's lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, has approved a bill to amend the Basic Law to ease debt restrictions. This should attract billions of euros of investment in defense and infrastructure, as well as unlock 3 billion euros for military aid to Ukraine.

This was reported by Censor.NET with reference to Ukrinform.

The draft law on amendments to the Basic Law was adopted by the votes of the CDU/CSU, SPD, and the Greens.

Thus, the draft law received 513 votes out of the required 489 (two-thirds) votes of all members of the German parliament.

The right-wing radicals from Alternative for Germany, both left-wing parties - the Left and the Sarah Wagenknecht Bloc - and one democratic party - the Free Democrats - voted against, a total of 207 lawmakers.

In total, 720 parliamentarians cast their votes.

The document was submitted for consideration by the parliamentary groups of the Social Democratic Party and the conservative bloc of the Christian Democratic and Christian Social Unions.

In the future, defense and some security policy expenditures exceeding 1% of nominal GDP will be exempt from the debt rule.
This clause gives the green light to unblock €3 billion in military aid to Ukraine.

In addition, a special fund of 500 billion euros is to be created for additional investments in infrastructure and additional investments to achieve climate neutrality by 2045.

In addition, local authorities will be given the opportunity for additional borrowing when preparing the budgets of the federal states.

The bill has already been approved by the Bundestag Budget Committee on March 16. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541864

Zelenskyy arrives in Finland: meeting with President Stubb is scheduled

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy arrived on an official visit to Finland on Tuesday, March 18.

This was reported by Censor.NET with reference to local media.

Zelenskyy is expected to meet with Finnish President Alexander Stubb tomorrow, March 19. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541853

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by MaDef

Life moves on and interests change over time, that memorandum was mainly to keep Nuclear weapons from a possible unstable Government. And both the U.S. & Russia signed on as Guarantor's along with the U.K.


Not looking to rehash the history of the area, suffice to say there are no nuclear weapons involved now, and we, (the U.S.) are tired of being the worlds policeman and getting kicked in the teeth for our efforts.

the Same goes with NATO. The EU is (or should be) strong enough to stand on it's own two feet. It's time for the U.S. to move on and get our own house in order.

@ Jim. Thank you Sir.

The intent is Irrelevant. The U.S signed on as a Guarantor's of Ukraine's security and sovereignty. The U.S should live up to it's agreements. I agree that we shouldn't be the world's policeman. Btw, who said the Ukraine was an unstable Government ?

[Otto Harkaman]

Principles are fine but we are dealing with an unhinged individual with a nuclear arsenal unlike thank goodness Hitler. Trump is not Putin's friend, probably loathes him but he has to be able to communicate with him. All sides aren't fully what they seem. This situation is so serious its complexity is virtually indescribable, like pulling pieces from a puzzle trying not to set off a bomb.