A Sad Day

iambecomelife · 07-28-24, 10:10 PM

Aircraft score the vast majority of kills against me when I play SH3; the depth charge load of big bombers like the B-17 and B-24 make them extra-deadly late in the war.

In my opinion, the fact that U-Boats were ordered at one point to "stand and fight" aircraft in real life is insane. 50 men and a submarine in exchange for one plane shot down now and then? Not much of a trade.

Doolar · 07-28-24, 11:48 PM

Never looked at it that way, It's wasn't worth it

Hooston · 07-30-24, 04:39 AM

The game is not great at aircraft attacks.

Early war attacks were very ineffective because the aircraft used bombs. To be effective against a submarine at or near the surface the bomb had to explode shallow, which meant that it had to explode immediately and endangered the attacking aircraft, which in turn meant it had to be a very small bomb or dropped from such a height that a hit was almost impossible.
Depth charges allowed the aircraft to escape the blast of its own weapons. As the aircraft had no means of accurately locating a submarine below periscope depth it was found to be pointless dropping depth charges with deep settings. A simple fixed 25 foot setting was settled on fairly quickly. The game has aircraft attacking submarines at considerable depths.

The anti-aircraft armament could be extremely deadly if the water was calm. The effective range of the uboat AA was very short - a problem with all manually aimed AA guns - so the late war introduction of rockets on the attacking aircraft made a huge difference. Overall slightly more aircraft were shot down than uboats sunk, but as said above this was a poor exchange.

If the boat stayed up to fight the aircraft had the option of circling just outside effective gun range waiting for reinforcements or for the boat to start diving. There's an excellent account of a 1943 attack on a group of boats staying up to fight in Drachinifel's biography of Johnnie Walker
By the way I was very impressed by the air attack in Uboat on Wolfpack345's channel .
Very inaccurate AA. The Sunderland even went away to wind more charges out of its internal bomb bay then came back for a second pass. Uboat seems to have upped its game with the latest patch, I think the devs have been playing SH3.

Shadowblade · 07-30-24, 05:39 AM

As ASW aircraft often start its attack with machinegun fire - which caliber do you need to penetrate the uboat's pressure hull ?

Hooston · 07-30-24, 11:24 AM

Historically 57mm armour piercing shot from the Tse-tse Mosquito was necessary. The pressure hull was at least 18.5mm of steel, so in practice (taking into account angle, range and water in the way) it was proof against all machine guns and even 20mm cannon. The conning tower was at least as well protected. See the career of U441 https://uboat.net/boats/u441.htm
The weak points were the crew manning the flak guns - a quad 20mm needs a whole bunch of loaders - and the saddle ballast tanks (which were relatively small and not essential for safe operation).
An RP-3 solid shot rocket could go into the water then straight through the pressure hull and even, allegedly, out the other side. The pressure bulkheads within the boat were not very strong, so any sizeable hole would prevent the boat from diving and could sink it outright.

les green01 · 08-07-24, 05:35 PM

The question is why was you mooning them guess they didn't like your full moon

Hooston · 08-08-24, 02:55 AM

It's no laughing matter. That exposed stern was full of seamen.

Shadowblade · 07-30-24, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

In my opinion, the fact that U-Boats were ordered at one point to "stand and fight" aircraft in real life is insane. 50 men and a submarine in exchange for one plane shot down now and then? Not much of a trade.

thanks, but I am no U-Flak boat to fight with ASW bombers.
My job is to sink enemy ships and I need pressure hull in good condition for that.
(that is why I dont fight with those torpedo boats as well)

07-28-24, 10:10 PM	#1
iambecomelife Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,706 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	Aircraft score the vast majority of kills against me when I play SH3; the depth charge load of big bombers like the B-17 and B-24 make them extra-deadly late in the war. In my opinion, the fact that U-Boats were ordered at one point to "stand and fight" aircraft in real life is insane. 50 men and a submarine in exchange for one plane shot down now and then? Not much of a trade. __________________ https://www.facebook.com/WolvesoftheKaiser/

07-28-24, 11:48 PM	#2
Doolar Expert Shipsinker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Baltimore,Md./ CA45 Posts: 919 Downloads: 360 Uploads: 0	Re Never looked at it that way, It's wasn't worth it __________________ ONEALEX 1.53 ARB / NYGM "ENHANCED Steel Coffin Edition" v7.8 DGUI / CCom12 DGUI / WAC 5.2 DGUI / Toyotagt86 v2.3 ARB / GWX3 DGUI / GWX Knight's Cross v1

07-30-24, 05:39 AM	#4
Shadowblade Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 699 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	As ASW aircraft often start its attack with machinegun fire - which caliber do you need to penetrate the uboat's pressure hull ? __________________ Kapitänleutnant Vlad von Carstein - U-Flotilla Saltzwedel - U-123, Type IXB SH3 GWX 3.0

07-30-24, 11:24 AM	#5
Hooston 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 278 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Making holes Historically 57mm armour piercing shot from the Tse-tse Mosquito was necessary. The pressure hull was at least 18.5mm of steel, so in practice (taking into account angle, range and water in the way) it was proof against all machine guns and even 20mm cannon. The conning tower was at least as well protected. See the career of U441 https://uboat.net/boats/u441.htm The weak points were the crew manning the flak guns - a quad 20mm needs a whole bunch of loaders - and the saddle ballast tanks (which were relatively small and not essential for safe operation). An RP-3 solid shot rocket could go into the water then straight through the pressure hull and even, allegedly, out the other side. The pressure bulkheads within the boat were not very strong, so any sizeable hole would prevent the boat from diving and could sink it outright.

08-07-24, 05:35 PM	#6
les green01 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Freeman Missouri Posts: 1,784 Downloads: 1405 Uploads: 0	The question is why was you mooning them guess they didn't like your full moon __________________ I'll tell you what bravery really is. Bravery is just determination to do a job that you know has to be done. Audie Murphy

07-30-24, 04:39 AM	#3
Hooston 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 278 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	The game is not great at aircraft attacks. Early war attacks were very ineffective because the aircraft used bombs. To be effective against a submarine at or near the surface the bomb had to explode shallow, which meant that it had to explode immediately and endangered the attacking aircraft, which in turn meant it had to be a very small bomb or dropped from such a height that a hit was almost impossible. Depth charges allowed the aircraft to escape the blast of its own weapons. As the aircraft had no means of accurately locating a submarine below periscope depth it was found to be pointless dropping depth charges with deep settings. A simple fixed 25 foot setting was settled on fairly quickly. The game has aircraft attacking submarines at considerable depths. The anti-aircraft armament could be extremely deadly if the water was calm. The effective range of the uboat AA was very short - a problem with all manually aimed AA guns - so the late war introduction of rockets on the attacking aircraft made a huge difference. Overall slightly more aircraft were shot down than uboats sunk, but as said above this was a poor exchange. If the boat stayed up to fight the aircraft had the option of circling just outside effective gun range waiting for reinforcements or for the boat to start diving. There's an excellent account of a 1943 attack on a group of boats staying up to fight in Drachinifel's biography of Johnnie Walker By the way I was very impressed by the air attack in Uboat on Wolfpack345's channel . Very inaccurate AA. The Sunderland even went away to wind more charges out of its internal bomb bay then came back for a second pass. Uboat seems to have upped its game with the latest patch, I think the devs have been playing SH3.

08-08-24, 02:55 AM	#7
Hooston 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 278 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Sorry, but had to be said... It's no laughing matter. That exposed stern was full of seamen.