From the outrageous conspiracy files. The Titanic never sank.

Commander Wallace · 11-05-22, 08:56 AM

The Wild Conspiracy Theory That the Titanic Never Sank

Believers say one gigantic boat was swapped for another for insurance money. Here’s the truth.

Popular Mechanics

David Grossman

When the Titanic sank in 1912, it shocked the world. The limits of human innovation were cruelly displayed with the destruction of such a technically remarkable ship.
But a conspiracy theory that has crept up online in recent years asks the question, most recently on Reddit: Was it actually the Titanic that sank?

We know. It sounds bonkers. But bear with us.
Everyone seems to agree on one fact: A ship really did sink in the icy waters of the North Atlantic on April 15, 1912, and approximately 1,500 passengers aboard that ship died. The conspiracy simply suggests the Titanic wasn’t actually the technical marvel the ship's parent company, the White Star Line, had promised.

Rather, the White Star Line swapped ships for the voyage from Southampton to New York and the ship billed as the top-of-the-line Titanic was actually an older ship: the Olympic.
What’s more, the conspiracy theory suggests, the entire crash was an insurance scam gone wrong.

J.P. Morgan and the Heyday of Big Ships

The British White Star Line had stiff competition in England and across the globe. Locally, it had a fierce rivalry with the Cunard Steamship Company, Ltd., which in 1906-07 had sent on its maiden voyage the world's then-largest passenger ships, the Lusitania and the Mauretania.

To compete with the Lusitania and its mate, White Star Line entered into a giant ship war. The company was no stranger to such battles, but Cunard’s Lusitania and Mauretania had out-gunned White Star’s so-called “Big Four” ships in terms of top speed. This time around, the company had some extra backing.

In 1902, White Star had become a property owned by the International Mercantile Marine Co. (IMM), a holding company bankrolled by famed financier J.P Morgan. With Morgan’s permission, White Star chairman J. Bruce Ismay began work on what came to be known as Olympic-class ships. If they couldn’t match the Lusitania's speed, Olympic-class ships would outclass Cunard ships: they’d be even bigger, and more luxurious. Three ships were commissioned: the Olympic, the Titanic, and the Britannic.

The Olympic was the first to be built, and as the line’s namesake, it was considered the lead ship. Its maiden trip was widely heralded, and its first few voyages were unqualified successes. But on just its fifth voyage, the vessel ran into serious trouble.

On September 20, 1911, while passing a military vessel, the Hawke, the Olympic made an unexpected turn. Caught off guard, the two ships crashed. The Olympic was able to limp back to port, badly wounded. A trial would later hold the White Star Line responsible for the incident.

The Conspiracy Begins

Everything above is generally agreed to be fact. The Olympic crash is where paths diverge.
After the crash, conspiracy theorists claim, the Olympic was an economic disaster. The lawsuit meant repairs would not be covered by insurance, and it was drawing no money while sitting around the docks. So the company made a switch: Its newly built second ship would take on the name Olympic, while its damaged older ship would be re-purposed to be the Titanic.

Eventually, the true Olympic (now secretly operating as the Titanic) would be scuttled in an accident from which the White Star Line could collect an insurance payment befitting a brand new ship—all while the ship originally built as the Titanic would have lived on. The only thing that ruined the plan was an iceberg.

Other conspiracy theorists claim a more nefarious reasoning for the sinking: J.P Morgan was behind the switch, eager to use an inferior ship to drown his enemies onboard.

Proponents of either theory point toward a number of clues: the Titanic didn’t allow for a public examination before its voyage, out of fear it would be found out by experts as Olympic in disguise, theorists claim. And then there are portholes.

A recent popular Reddit post examines pictures of Titanic under construction and Titanic on its first voyage, and finds the second picture suspiciously changed and close to the Olympic.
There are a plethora of other details. For example, separate claims point toward the argument the Olympic lies at the bottom of the sea instead of the original Titanic.

The Conspiracy Doesn't Add Up

Titanic researchers Steve Hall and Bruce Beveridge have published a book on the subject, Titanic or Olympic: Which Ship Sank? They've also helped to write other books of Titanic history, including Titanic: The Ship Magnificent. The two take the porthole argument straight on.

“The Olympic,” they write, “like the Titanic, was fitted originally with the same 14-porthole arrangement on the port side of her forecastle, but 2 additional portholes were later fitted; they were there in March 1912.”
Historian Mark Chirnside has also devoted serious time to the question of why, exactly, the switch would be made.

In 2005, he examined the insurance argument—that the ship would be intentionally sunk to claim the insurance benefits. Quoting Ismay, “the Titanic ‘cost $7,500,000’ – and was insured ‘for $5,000,000, I understand.’” This is backed up by the IMM's American Vice-President, Philip A. S. Franklin, who confirmed that the insurance policy was $5 million.

“Were there a conspiracy, one would expect that the insurance policy would have been changed to cover the entire value of the ship,” Chirnside writes. “As it was, White Star could only expect to recoup two-thirds of the ship’s value.”

Closely examined, none of the Olympic/Titanic claims can hold up to the phenomenal effort that was needed for the switch: the two ships were not exactly identical. The Titanic had a “unique café and enlarged á la carte restaurant," Chirnside writes, and was modified based on the company's earlier experience with the Olympic.

That’s not all. It “is simply impossible to pass off a one-year-old ship for a new one,” he says, pointing to a number of small differences between the two, including “additional steel plates that were fitted to the bedplates of Olympic’s engines” added in 1911 and still there in further inspections in the 20s and 30s.

When the Titanic was investigated by the British board of trade, no such plates were found.
It’s not that the Titanic or owner J.P Morgan were above suspicion—Morgan demonstrated phenomenal power over the U.S. during his lifetime, resolving the Banking Crisis of 1907 almost singlehandedly. (As

It happened, the Titanic’s sinking would prove to make IMM the rare Morgan financial failure, going bankrupt 2 years later.)
But in that incident, there was physical evidence that Morgan was altering the monetary system. No concrete evidence of the Titanic conspiracy stands up to the evidence presented by the historians.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...=pocket-newtab

Interesting theory. I also heard that Elvis is alive and has a condo on Mars so he doesn't have to deal with people constantly stopping by.

Jimbuna · 11-05-22, 09:48 AM

Subnuts · 11-05-22, 10:58 AM

Fun fact: Every fitting onboard the Olympic had the number "400" printed somewhere on it, and every fitting onboard the Titanic had the number "401" on it.

Therefore, besides completely altering the Olympic to look exactly like the Titanic, (including enclosing the forward part of the the A-deck promenade, installing 28 extra first-class cabins on B deck, expanding the first class restaurant, putting in the Cafe Parisian, moving and replacing a lot of the deck vents, taking out the third-class open berths and replacing them with cabins, etc.) Harland and Woolf would have had to go down to the wreck sometime between 1912 and 1985, and completely taken it apart making sure EVERY single fitting had a "401" on it, in case it was every discovered and salvaged. Also, they managed to maintain COMPLETE secrecy doing this, did so in a couple of days, and no one who served on both ships noticed anything fishy.

Umm...sure.

Aktungbby · 11-05-22, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Fun fact: EVERY single fitting had a "401"

Ergo: All the victims in the frigid, glassy moonless waters must have had a sudden case of the "the 401 blues"?!

Commander Wallace · 11-05-22, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Fun fact: Every fitting onboard the Olympic had the number "400" printed somewhere on it, and every fitting onboard the Titanic had the number "401" on it.

Therefore, besides completely altering the Olympic to look exactly like the Titanic, (including enclosing the forward part of the the A-deck promenade, installing 28 extra first-class cabins on B deck, expanding the first class restaurant, putting in the Cafe Parisian, moving and replacing a lot of the deck vents, taking out the third-class open berths and replacing them with cabins, etc.) Harland and Woolf would have had to go down to the wreck sometime between 1912 and 1985, and completely taken it apart making sure EVERY single fitting had a "401" on it, in case it was every discovered and salvaged. Also, they managed to maintain COMPLETE secrecy doing this, did so in a couple of days, and no one who served on both ships noticed anything fishy.

Umm...sure.

I knew there was an explanation for all this. Why that Harland & Wolff ship builders are crafty buggers for having figured this all out. I'm most impressed that H&S managed to do this in a few days.

Seriously, Thanks for the great information.

I'm serious about Elvis though. Elvis is operating a McDonalds chain on Mars. It is for space weary aliens hankering for a Big Mac on their way to Earth. Although, it could be said that Elvis is protecting mankind from an alien attack and occupation. Once aliens suffer heart burn and indigestion from a Big Mac attack, they want no parts of Earth and turn back.

mapuc · 11-05-22, 12:30 PM

This is one of the conspiracy I like most this has to do with my interest in Titanic.

Elvis-He's the kitchen manager on the restaurant at the end of the universe.
His End-of-Time soufflé is a masterpiece I have been told.

Markus

Aktungbby · 11-05-22, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I knew there was an explanation for all this. Why that Harland & Wolff ship builders are crafty buggers for having figured this all out. I'm most impressed that H&S managed to do this in a few days.

Seriously, Thanks for the great information.

I'm serious about Elvis though. Elvis is operating a McDonalds chain on Mars. It is for space weary aliens hankering for a Big Mac on their way to Earth. Although, it could be said that Elvis is protecting mankind from an alien attack and occupation. Once aliens suffer heart burn and indigestion from a Big Mac attack, they want no parts of Earth and turn back.

For sure He's on Mars... and still a'shakin the Elvis Pelvis like a houndog as alot of those little green kids R on a trifle on the chartreuse side!...as opposed 2 SOP homegrown Martian Lime Green!

Commander Wallace · 11-05-22, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Ergo: All the victims in the frigid, glassy moonless waters must have had a sudden case of the "the 401 blues"?!

Not only that but a lot of the guests on the Titanic left the water running in their bathtubs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Elvis-He's the kitchen manager on the restaurant at the end of the universe.
His End-of-Time soufflé is a masterpiece I have been told.

Markus

I thought that was Vienna or Rockstar that was the Kitchen manager at the end of the universe.

Skybird · 11-05-22, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Not only that but a lot of the guests on the Titanic left the water running in their bathtubs.

Except the Finnish passengers, they did not sit in bath tubes, but preferred to sit in the fridge. The Titanic's problem with ice did not come from outside the ship's hull, but from inside the ship's hull.

Too many reindeer steaks eaten caused heavy farting and that was what plopped open the ship's hull.

Commander Wallace · 11-05-22, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Except the Finnish passnmegers. They preferred to sit in the fridge. The Titanic's problem with ice did not come from outside the ship's hull, but from inside the ship's hull.

That was a very " cold " statement, Sky. You should be ashamed.

Rhodes · 11-05-22, 04:52 PM

Of course it's true. And I know that because it is sunken here, in my home town beach!

mapuc · 11-05-22, 05:31 PM

Some month or maybe years ago can't remember since I have no sense of time we had a thread where we discussed the Titanic and this fire.

Some of you posted a story made by some historians who had come to the conclusion there was a fire in the coal room and it started before they left Southampton.

I think it was this one

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...nic-180961699/

However I can't find the thread-If I only knew who made it.

Markus

Aktungbby · 11-05-22, 10:23 PM

I made that post about the bunker fire that weakened the hull approx. where the strike on the iceberg hit, I'll try to find it...

Platapus · 11-10-22, 03:34 PM

When they were filming the movie Titanic, why didn't they stop filming and try to rescue the passengers???

How heartless and all for the movie profits.

Rockstar · 11-10-22, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Not only that but a lot of the guests on the Titanic left the water running in their bathtubs.

I thought that was Vienna or Rockstar that was the Kitchen manager at the end of the universe.

I now work at the Zendia Bar & Grill as chief cook and bottle washer.

11-05-22, 08:56 AM	#1
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,332 Downloads: 366 Uploads: 0	From the outrageous conspiracy files. The Titanic never sank. The Wild Conspiracy Theory That the Titanic Never Sank Believers say one gigantic boat was swapped for another for insurance money. Here’s the truth. Popular Mechanics David Grossman When the Titanic sank in 1912, it shocked the world. The limits of human innovation were cruelly displayed with the destruction of such a technically remarkable ship. But a conspiracy theory that has crept up online in recent years asks the question, most recently on Reddit: Was it actually the Titanic that sank? We know. It sounds bonkers. But bear with us. Everyone seems to agree on one fact: A ship really did sink in the icy waters of the North Atlantic on April 15, 1912, and approximately 1,500 passengers aboard that ship died. The conspiracy simply suggests the Titanic wasn’t actually the technical marvel the ship's parent company, the White Star Line, had promised. Rather, the White Star Line swapped ships for the voyage from Southampton to New York and the ship billed as the top-of-the-line Titanic was actually an older ship: the Olympic. What’s more, the conspiracy theory suggests, the entire crash was an insurance scam gone wrong. J.P. Morgan and the Heyday of Big Ships The British White Star Line had stiff competition in England and across the globe. Locally, it had a fierce rivalry with the Cunard Steamship Company, Ltd., which in 1906-07 had sent on its maiden voyage the world's then-largest passenger ships, the Lusitania and the Mauretania. To compete with the Lusitania and its mate, White Star Line entered into a giant ship war. The company was no stranger to such battles, but Cunard’s Lusitania and Mauretania had out-gunned White Star’s so-called “Big Four” ships in terms of top speed. This time around, the company had some extra backing. In 1902, White Star had become a property owned by the International Mercantile Marine Co. (IMM), a holding company bankrolled by famed financier J.P Morgan. With Morgan’s permission, White Star chairman J. Bruce Ismay began work on what came to be known as Olympic-class ships. If they couldn’t match the Lusitania's speed, Olympic-class ships would outclass Cunard ships: they’d be even bigger, and more luxurious. Three ships were commissioned: the Olympic, the Titanic, and the Britannic. The Olympic was the first to be built, and as the line’s namesake, it was considered the lead ship. Its maiden trip was widely heralded, and its first few voyages were unqualified successes. But on just its fifth voyage, the vessel ran into serious trouble. On September 20, 1911, while passing a military vessel, the Hawke, the Olympic made an unexpected turn. Caught off guard, the two ships crashed. The Olympic was able to limp back to port, badly wounded. A trial would later hold the White Star Line responsible for the incident. The Conspiracy Begins Everything above is generally agreed to be fact. The Olympic crash is where paths diverge. After the crash, conspiracy theorists claim, the Olympic was an economic disaster. The lawsuit meant repairs would not be covered by insurance, and it was drawing no money while sitting around the docks. So the company made a switch: Its newly built second ship would take on the name Olympic, while its damaged older ship would be re-purposed to be the Titanic. Eventually, the true Olympic (now secretly operating as the Titanic) would be scuttled in an accident from which the White Star Line could collect an insurance payment befitting a brand new ship—all while the ship originally built as the Titanic would have lived on. The only thing that ruined the plan was an iceberg. Other conspiracy theorists claim a more nefarious reasoning for the sinking: J.P Morgan was behind the switch, eager to use an inferior ship to drown his enemies onboard. Proponents of either theory point toward a number of clues: the Titanic didn’t allow for a public examination before its voyage, out of fear it would be found out by experts as Olympic in disguise, theorists claim. And then there are portholes. A recent popular Reddit post examines pictures of Titanic under construction and Titanic on its first voyage, and finds the second picture suspiciously changed and close to the Olympic. There are a plethora of other details. For example, separate claims point toward the argument the Olympic lies at the bottom of the sea instead of the original Titanic. The Conspiracy Doesn't Add Up Titanic researchers Steve Hall and Bruce Beveridge have published a book on the subject, Titanic or Olympic: Which Ship Sank? They've also helped to write other books of Titanic history, including Titanic: The Ship Magnificent. The two take the porthole argument straight on. “The Olympic,” they write, “like the Titanic, was fitted originally with the same 14-porthole arrangement on the port side of her forecastle, but 2 additional portholes were later fitted; they were there in March 1912.” Historian Mark Chirnside has also devoted serious time to the question of why, exactly, the switch would be made. In 2005, he examined the insurance argument—that the ship would be intentionally sunk to claim the insurance benefits. Quoting Ismay, “the Titanic ‘cost $7,500,000’ – and was insured ‘for $5,000,000, I understand.’” This is backed up by the IMM's American Vice-President, Philip A. S. Franklin, who confirmed that the insurance policy was $5 million. “Were there a conspiracy, one would expect that the insurance policy would have been changed to cover the entire value of the ship,” Chirnside writes. “As it was, White Star could only expect to recoup two-thirds of the ship’s value.” Closely examined, none of the Olympic/Titanic claims can hold up to the phenomenal effort that was needed for the switch: the two ships were not exactly identical. The Titanic had a “unique café and enlarged á la carte restaurant," Chirnside writes, and was modified based on the company's earlier experience with the Olympic. That’s not all. It “is simply impossible to pass off a one-year-old ship for a new one,” he says, pointing to a number of small differences between the two, including “additional steel plates that were fitted to the bedplates of Olympic’s engines” added in 1911 and still there in further inspections in the 20s and 30s. When the Titanic was investigated by the British board of trade, no such plates were found. It’s not that the Titanic or owner J.P Morgan were above suspicion—Morgan demonstrated phenomenal power over the U.S. during his lifetime, resolving the Banking Crisis of 1907 almost singlehandedly. (As It happened, the Titanic’s sinking would prove to make IMM the rare Morgan financial failure, going bankrupt 2 years later.) But in that incident, there was physical evidence that Morgan was altering the monetary system. No concrete evidence of the Titanic conspiracy stands up to the evidence presented by the historians. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...=pocket-newtab Interesting theory. I also heard that Elvis is alive and has a condo on Mars so he doesn't have to deal with people constantly stopping by.

11-05-22, 09:48 AM	#2
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,291 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-05-22, 10:58 AM	#3
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Fun fact: Every fitting onboard the Olympic had the number "400" printed somewhere on it, and every fitting onboard the Titanic had the number "401" on it. Therefore, besides completely altering the Olympic to look exactly like the Titanic, (including enclosing the forward part of the the A-deck promenade, installing 28 extra first-class cabins on B deck, expanding the first class restaurant, putting in the Cafe Parisian, moving and replacing a lot of the deck vents, taking out the third-class open berths and replacing them with cabins, etc.) Harland and Woolf would have had to go down to the wreck sometime between 1912 and 1985, and completely taken it apart making sure EVERY single fitting had a "401" on it, in case it was every discovered and salvaged. Also, they managed to maintain COMPLETE secrecy doing this, did so in a couple of days, and no one who served on both ships noticed anything fishy. Umm...sure. __________________ My Amazon.com reviews

11-05-22, 12:30 PM	#6
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,607 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	This is one of the conspiracy I like most this has to do with my interest in Titanic. Elvis-He's the kitchen manager on the restaurant at the end of the universe. His End-of-Time soufflé is a masterpiece I have been told. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

11-05-22, 04:52 PM	#11
Rhodes Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Figueira da Foz, Portugal Posts: 4,522 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	Of course it's true. And I know that because it is sunken here, in my home town beach! __________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/16416646@N05/

11-05-22, 05:31 PM	#12
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,607 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Some month or maybe years ago can't remember since I have no sense of time we had a thread where we discussed the Titanic and this fire. Some of you posted a story made by some historians who had come to the conclusion there was a fire in the coal room and it started before they left Southampton. I think it was this one https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...nic-180961699/ However I can't find the thread-If I only knew who made it. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

11-05-22, 10:23 PM	#13
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,136 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I made that post about the bunker fire that weakened the hull approx. where the strike on the iceberg hit, I'll try to find it... __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

11-10-22, 03:34 PM	#14
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,425 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	When they were filming the movie Titanic, why didn't they stop filming and try to rescue the passengers??? How heartless and all for the movie profits. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.