Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

So, in other words, you have nothing to back up your baseless claims other than your words. I should add that I expected you would have some proof from a reputable international source or clearing house of your claims.



I expected as much.

There's one surest way to provoke the inner colonist to come out in almost every Russian, no matter how anti Putin they claim to be: ask them if their granddads 'liberated' something in ww2

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

1911-44. tannu-tuva tries to leave Russian Colonialism. Moscow stages a coup, installs a puppet regime, starts cultural erasure, sends ethnically Russian settler colonialists, forces Tuva to grant them citizenship and eventually annexes the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvan_People%27s_Republic
1916-34. Central Asian nations try to leave Russian Colonialism. Moscow invades to 'protect from violence’ & to 'civilize.' Bukhara, one of the world's oldest cities, bombed to the ground. Tens of thousands slaughtered in pogroms and ethnic cleansing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmachi_movement
1917-53. Ukraine is leaving Russian Colonialism. Moscow invades to ‘stop violence’, spends years on a mass murder spree across the country, stokes unrest, and eventually occupies it. Kremlin uses the Holodomor genocide, mass terror to crush the resistance https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/
1917-20. Azerbaijan leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow manufactures fakes about mass murders and invades ‘to stop violence.’ tens of thousands were slaughtered in the following terror https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ar..._of_Azerbaijan
1917-20. Armenia leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow invades 'to protect from impending genocide.' in practice, it means dissolving the republic and occupying it https://communistcrimes.org/en/countries/armenia
1917-24. Georgia leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow stages ethnic violence and invades to ‘protect itself.’ Russians execute thousands, deport 20,000+ in ethnic cleansing https://georgianjournal.ge/society/3...-red-army.html https://civil.ge/archives/397042/amp
1917-45. North Caucasus leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow stages ethnic violence, invades to ‘stop it.’ Russians deploy a series of genocides and mass deportations in the following two decades, killing hundreds of thousands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mounta...thern_Caucasus
1917-21. Bashkortostan leaves Russian Colonialism, becomes the world's first Muslim democracy. Moscow stokes internal divisions, lures into a military union with fake promises of preserving the democracy, mass murders the elites and then absorbs it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashki...7%E2%80%931919)
1917-20. Estonia leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow assembles pro Russian Estonian paramilitary forces, a puppet Estonian leadership, and invades to ‘protect Estonian opposition.’ Estonians kick Russians out

1917-44. Indigenous nation of Crimean Tatars leaves Russian Colonialism, set up the 2nd-ever Muslim democracy. Moscow invades 'to protect opposition,' executes 33-yo president Numan Celebicihan. Genocide, deportations kill every 2nd Crimean Tatar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_People's_Republic
1917-20. Ukrainians of don/kuban’ leave Russian Colonialism, set up democracies. Russians stoke internal political/ethnic divisions, assassinate political leadership, invade to 'protect itself.' Moscow ethnically cleanses and Russifies the region https://babel.ua/en/texts/76760-104-...re-s-its-story
1917-18. Idel-Ural tries to leave Russian Colonialism. A Tatar proto-republic had one of the world's 1st democratic Muslim parliaments. Moscow stokes internal ethnic divisions, kidnaps MPs, invades, starves almost a third of local population to death https://idel-ural.org/en/
1917-53. Belarus leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow creates a puppet state, invades to ‘’liberate’. A Small Belarusian army resists Kremlin forces for over a month on a heroic suicide mission, but loses. 600k+ killed in ethnic cleansing https://communistcrimes.org/en/countries/belarus
1917-53. Moldova leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow stokes the divide, invades to ‘liberate.' neighboring Romania kicks Russians out, absorbs Moldova. Russians reoccupy it in 1940 via pact with Hitler. Tens of thousands killed/deported https://communistcrimes.org/en/countries/belarus
1917-43. The indigenous nation of Kalmyks leaves Russian Colonialism, joins anti-colonial coalition of Ukrainian Cossack and northern Caucasian states. Moscow invades, punishes Kalmyks with controlled starvation, deports entire nation, killing every third https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr...-long-goodbye/
1917-37. Indigenous nation of Buryats leaves Russian Colonialism. Russians infiltrate buryat-mongolia government, stoke divide, disband it. Moscow occupies the state to “civilize it out of feudalism.” tens of thousands are slaughtered, become refugees https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr...-long-goodbye/
1918-20. Latvia leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow creates a competing puppet government, manufactures a ‘civil war’ narrative to legitimize the invasion, but Latvians kick Russians out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia...f_Independence
1918-20. Lithuania leaves Russian Colonialism. Moscow breaks post-ww1 treaty that guaranteed Lithuanian independence, creates a puppet state to legitimize the invasion, orchestrates a coup, but Lithuanians push back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithua...f_Independence
1918-22. Karelia launches anti-Russian Colonialism uprising. Moscow lies it is a foreign incursion, invades, bans democratically-elected assembly, creates a puppet govt. hundreds slaughtered, approx 30,000 became refugees, local language/culture banned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_uprising
1918-24. Indigenous Evenki people leave Russian Colonialism amid mass terror and cultural erasure. Moscow lures the republic into ceasefire with fake autonomy promises, then mass slaughters the leadership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungus_Republic
1918-27. Indigenous nation of Sakha leaves Russian Colonialism. Russians fuel the internal divide. Moscow creates a competing puppet republic and recolonizes the state. Mass murder of local elites and settler colonialism turn Sakha into a 33% minority https://ojs.lib.uwo.ca/index.php/iipj/article/view/8269
1921-39. Mongolia is trying to leave Chinese colonialism, asks international help. Russians insert themselves into domestic infighting, invade to 'liberate from feudalism’, bring the country into colonial subjugation. Moscow orchestrated terror kills 30k+ https://communistcrimes.org/en/countries/mongolia
1931-33. Indigenous nation of Khanty tries to leave Russian Colonialism after centuries of exploitation, cultural erasure. Moscow drowns anti-colonial uprising in blood, decimating local indigenous villages with aircraft artillery and machine guns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazym_rebellion
1932. indigenous nation of dolgans tries to leave Russian Colonialism, sick of economic exploitation, cultural erasure. Moscow lures the nation into a ceasefire with fake promises of autonomy, later murders uprising leaders https://tol.org/client/article/cold-...as-arctic.html
1934-43. Indigenous nation of nenets tries to leave Russian Colonialism after centuries of exploitation, cultural erasure. Moscow deploys troops and machine guns. Surviving rebels are arrested, and many are tortured to death https://www.academia.edu/479640/Two_...he_1940s_2005_
1937-47. Planning another colonization of Poland, Moscow claims all poles are foreign spies, launches genocide slaughtering over 111,000 of them, every 5th living under Russian rule, under the excuse of ‘protecting’ Russia https://operacja-polska.pl/nke in 1939, as a facade for a secret colonial deal with Hitler, Moscow claims the protection of ethnic minorities in Poland, invades it, and partitions it up. Russian colonial troops kill 150,000, deport 320,000, rape 100,000 Polish citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland Kremlin installs a soviet satellite regime in Poland by 1945. Tens of thousands of poles resist in the anti-colonial wolność i niezawisłość guerilla movement, but most get killed or deported https://ipn.gov.pl/en/brief-history-...-Soldiers.html
1939-40. Moscow schemes to recolonize finland via russian Colonialism deal with hitler, creates a puppet statelet, vows to protect it against the ‘fascist military clique in helsinki,’ and invades. amid heavy losses kremlin settled for 11% of finland https://babel.ua/en/texts/55473-82-y...war-in-archive

This is your USSR this is your revolution violent couped by lenin who turned it into a hell for the workers this is your history of your freedom let me have myn under the United states that liberated us and helped us after WWII this is all that this child has to say to you!

I mean, as I understand it, it was not the Estonian communists who were the leaders in Estonia, but the Russians? In Georgia - weren't Georgians on the party committee, in Armenia weren't Armenians? And so on?

Stop talking nonsense - the bulk of the population, everything was fine in these republics.
And these republics were also led by local national cadres. Again, you blame all the Russians. As for the countries of the Warsaw bloc, this is a different story. We must remember how the coalition divided post-war Europe. Or is it the Russians who took Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc. etc. No, that's how Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt divided it.

[Rockstar]

Yes, we are small nations, we are not 100-200 million, but we have history, culture, we love, we want to be respected.' Rahmon said in a fiery outburst.

'We do not need anything; just to be respected.'

The humiliation was witnessed by the rulers of Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan.

'Why do we have to beg (Russia to attend) some miserable forum in Tajikistan?' Rahmon demanded of Putin, jabbing his finger and making expansive gestures.

'I gave instructions to the Foreign Ministry, I even talked to you to ask (Russia) to attend at least at the ministerial level. No, at the level of deputy ministers. Is this what Tajikistan deserves, a strategic partner?'

It is not the first time that Putin's so-called friends and partners in Asia have turned on him publicly since his debacle in Ukraine now that they sense weakness and smell blood.

At a summit in Samarkand, Uzbekistan last month, Chinese premier Xi Xinping snubbed dinner with Putin, while Indian prime minister Narendra Modi told Putin in front of the media that 'now is not the time for war'.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan also humiliated the Russian warmonger by making him wait in front of rolling cameras for half a minute before coming out to greet him ahead of talks.

In the rambling and unscripted tirade, the Tajik dictator almost predicted Putin's demise, accusing his Russian counterpart of making the same mistakes that led to the downfall of the Soviet Union last century.

He also complained that Russian businessmen came into the country and enriched themselves by extracting Tajikistan's natural resources while refusing to invest in the country.

'We do not want your money, we want to be respected as we deserve. We host your military bases, we do everything you ask for, we really try to be what you pretend to be to us ''strategic partners.''

But we are never being treated like strategic partners! No offence, but we want to be respected!'

But you’ll make money with the U.S. and NATO partners.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

There's one surest way to provoke the inner colonist to come out in almost every Russian, no matter how anti Putin they claim to be: ask them if their granddads 'liberated' something in ww2

Yeah.
Your evidence - is not evidence.
You expected proof from BBC? Sorry - they prefer not to write such things.

[Jimbuna]

[les green01]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

Do not make me laugh - free countries. Yes, they cannot sneeze without the approval of overseas owners.
From whom did they become free? From Russia? Well, so they became under the protectorate of the United States.
Poland was raised financially entirely at the expense of the United States. It was a reward for the fact that the Poles were the first to break out of the socialist ghetto.
The other countries of the Warsaw bloc did not receive any money. On the contrary, all the assets were taken by the Americans. For example Bulgaria - the energy sector was completely bought out by American companies.

At the moment - the locomotive of Europe is Germany. German technology (as well as the famous German ordnung), coupled with cheap Russian resources, the Americans cannot allow this.
And someone is slipping onto the path of industrial terrorism in order to tear Germany away from cheap Russian resources.
It would be naive to think that the gas pipelines were blown up at the direction of Putin. If this were true, the entire "free press" of the world would trumpet it on every corner.
the Swedes investigated the sabotage, but they are afraid to announce the results of the investigation. Here are the "free" countries.

PS: "Italian politician, journalist and former MEP Giulietto Chiesa previously reported that the lands of five regions of Ukraine were sold for 50 years with the right to extend the lease (that is, forever, as he put it) to Anglo-Dutch Shell and American Chevron."

just business, nothing personal...

well shoot you mean we liberated a bunch of countries over there then gave them back and then got ownership of them again after we help rebuild them,never pay twice for real estate and you telling us that putin fell in a ukraine trap well couldn't be under biden he has a hard enough time reading a teleprompter wake up smell what shoveling

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

I mean, as I understand it, it was not the Estonian communists who were the leaders in Estonia, but the Russians? In Georgia - weren't Georgians on the party committee, in Armenia weren't Armenians? And so on?

Stop talking nonsense - the bulk of the population, everything was fine in these republics.
And these republics were also led by local national cadres. Again, you blame all the Russians. As for the countries of the Warsaw bloc, this is a different story. We must remember how the coalition divided post-war Europe. Or is it the Russians who took Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc. etc. No, that's how Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt divided it.

Russian denying this proofs it Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt divided it but Stalin annexed it West Europe was free to make their choices East Europe had no choice than to obey the orders out of the Kremlin after it robbed it empty the United States provide West Europe with goods and money to rebuild itself by our own choice in freedom and prosperity. Putin thinking he can do it over again is of a world so past ours he will only lose. "Dad, can I have the car keys?" / "OK, but don't lose them. We will get a new lada only if I sent you to Ukraine!"

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Russian denying this proofs it Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt divided it but Stalin annexed it West Europe was free to make their choices East Europe had no choice than to obey the orders out of the Kremlin after it robbed it empty the United States provide West Europe with goods and money to rebuild itself by our own choice in freedom and prosperity. Putin thinking he can do it over again is of a world so past ours he will only lose. "Dad, can I have the car keys?" / "OK, but don't lose them. We will get a new lada only if I sent you to Ukraine!"

Was it Stalin who led Poland or the GDR? No. These were Polish and German personnel. Why don't you criticize them? It was they who kept these countries in the communist bloc.

Cared about the "LADA". It is in the Ukrainian segment of the network that they disperse such nonsense. Personally, I do not know such fools who would exchange their lives for a piece of iron with wheels.

PS: Btw, in Russia there is a criminal punishment for refusing to go to war.
Go on war, or go to prison.

[Jimbuna]

FOR EVERYONE'S ATTENTION AND CONSIDERATION

I'm off now to watch an evening football/soccer match on tv so would be extremely grateful if my post of earlier today (see below) was heeded.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...postcount=7458
Quite an eventful evening was had by all I see.

So, where to begin.....

Whilst taking into account how current events in Ukraine can be so emotive on everybody regardless of which side they support, I must stress that anyone posting in this thread must give due recognition to the fact and try to remain calm.

There are points made that I personally agree with and there are other points I have a fundamental disagreement with.

If you disagree with something posted then you obviously have a right to reply/challenge. After all, that is what forum posting is about but if you are going to resort to swearing and name calling then you are clearly in breach of the forum 'FAQ & Rules (see link at the top of each page/board)

I'm now going to report this post I've made so that the forum owner is aware of what has happened and in so doing enable him to understand why I have resorted to taking any remedial action should that be necessary in the future.

I'll end by respectfully suggesting that it is easier to ignore someone rather than take the bait thereby fanning the flames.

I thank you all for your cooperation in advance.

I'm not sure if Neal will be around these parts during my absence but I will be back in the morning and sincerely hope no remedial work will be necessary.

I thank you all in advance for your cooperation.

[Catfish]

Russia has so much natural resources it is almost ridiculous.
What could this country become if it just concentrated on educating its population for some twenty to thirty years and invest the money it gets from selling resources in science and its people, instead blowing it out the window with corruption and an incompetent cleptocracy that favors a few.
Short-sighted autocratic dumbwits.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Russia has so much natural resources it is almost ridiculous.
What could this country become if it just concentrated on educating its population for some twenty to thirty years and invest the money it gets from selling resources in science and its people, instead blowing it out the window with corruption and an incompetent cleptocracy that favors a few.
Short-sighted autocratic dumbwits.

You're not right. They don't throw it away in window. Until recently, they kept it all in the west. Real estate in Miami, yachts in Corsica, six-figure accounts in General Societe.
Now the west has taken that away from them.
Rob what was stolen.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by les green01

well shoot you mean we liberated a bunch of countries over there then gave them back and then got ownership of them again after we help rebuild them,never pay twice for real estate and you telling us that putin fell in a ukraine trap well couldn't be under biden he has a hard enough time reading a teleprompter wake up smell what shoveling

the war was inevitable. if they had chosen not Trump, but Clinton's wife, it would simply have started much earlier.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Russia has so much natural resources it is almost ridiculous.
What could this country become if it just concentrated on educating its population for some twenty to thirty years and invest the money it gets from selling resources in science and its people, instead blowing it out the window with corruption and an incompetent cleptocracy that favors a few.
Short-sighted autocratic dumbwits.

Corruption is corrosive. It destroys everything it touches, but in Russia it has been a national past time since days of the Czars. Unless you fix that first I think the only possible result is going to be a kleptocracy in one form or other.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

Was it Stalin who led Poland or the GDR?

Indirectly, he installed puppets to rule in his name.

These were Polish and German personnel. Why don't you criticize them? It was they who kept these countries in the communist bloc.

The paid puppet leaders were INDEED criticized, by the free world and by their own people. When their own people rebelled like in Germany in 1953 or Checoslovakia in 1968 the protests were brutally subdued or invaded with russian tanks and russian soldiers.
Not that Pravda or TASS or any russian media would have told THIS part of russian history.

PS: Btw, in Russia there is a criminal punishment for refusing to go to war.
Go on war, or go to prison.

Nope, not officially. According to Putin they are all volunteers, and they can leave the front whenever they want.
This at least was Putin's promise to the people.
You do not interfere in my russian oligarchy pool and cleptocracy and stay away from politics, and as a "reward" you will be granted a little bit of a better life. And no war, no conscription.
But you have to see it is the people of a nation who have to decide whether they go along with/help such creatures like Putin or not. The longer they wait, the longer the dictatorship exists, the harder it is to overcome it.
With the current level of surveillance technology it may at some point become impossible, like in China.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

You're not right. They don't throw it away in window. Until recently, they kept it all in the west. Real estate in Miami, yachts in Corsica, six-figure accounts in General Societe.

This is exactky what i mean with throwing it out the window. Do you believe any of those cleptocrats spent only one rouble of their stolen money from the russian people for RUSSIA? Or for the russian people they stole it from?

Now the west has taken that away from them.
Rob what was stolen.

My heart bleeds for the russian oligarchs who support Putin and who suddenly reap the whirlwind they sowed.