Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 17

Aktungbby · 01-19-22, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has accused Russia of trying to divide Ukrainian society, as fears mount of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

An estimated 100,000 Russian troops have been deployed near Ukraine's borders and Mr Blinken, visiting Kyiv, said Russia could launch an attack at very short notice.

Mr Blinken also promised "relentless" diplomacy to stop Russian aggression.

Russia has repeatedly denied planning to invade its neighbour.

At a news conference with the Ukrainian foreign minister, Mr Blinken accused Russia of trying to weaken Ukraine's diplomatic institutions and to divide Ukrainian society, "using everything from election interference to disinformation to cyber attacks".

He also pledged "relentless diplomatic efforts to prevent renewed aggression and to promote dialogue and peace", and repeated a warning of tough sanctions against Russia in the event of an invasion.

Mr Blinken will meet his Russian counterpart in Geneva on Friday, after talks with European allies in Berlin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60048395

This phase of the smoke & mirrors Sitzkrieg is what Churchill called 'jaw-jaw'...but our approach is hampered seriously imho when at the conference table eyeball to eyeball with the imperialist decieveing rebuilders of the Stalin's Iron Curtain needing a landbridge to their Crimean land-snatch further gaining key port Mariupol for a Black Sea port....and your Yank eyeballer is named...Blinken!?? (as in: "first one to blink ...loses"

) I may be Biden my time but we're surely gonna blink!?

Platapus · 01-19-22, 05:07 PM

I just don't want the US to get involved. Let the EU handle it if they feel strongly about it.

Skybird · 01-19-22, 05:34 PM

^ I share that sentiment, but cannot see why European troops should want to get engaged there either. Its a failed state, or better: a failed political system. We can and should give them assistance (intel, satellite recce) and material support (weapons, ammo) to fight themselves, but we should not fight their fights for them.

Meanwhile Biden said in today's press conference he believes that "Putin must do something" and that "he will move into Ukraine", in form of what Biden called a "minor incursion": means not a prolonged stay, and not a total occupation of all the country.

Me too thinks the Russians will invade, but probably not to overrun the complete country. I am just not so certain that they only stay for a limited time. The goal could be to split and divide the country, as Catfish mentioned earlier: a pro-European Western part, and a pro-Russian Eastern part. Historically and culturally that makes kind of cold-blooded sense. Also, if Western Ukraine then later joins NATO against Russia's will, they have the Eastern Ukraine as the buffer zone they want.

Their allocation of forces extends their embrace of the Ukraine, whcih must split forces to defend more of its borders, weakening it this way. Is also a threat to Poland and the Baltic: they get "embraced", too.

mapuc · 01-19-22, 07:54 PM

The Ukrainian ambassador was interviewet on our news channel yesterday. What Ukrainian is asking for is AA, AAA or similar.

Markus

Skybird · 01-20-22, 01:17 AM

Not from the Germans, that much is for sure. Heck, part of the SPD and Greens even want to dismantle NATO! And that part of the SPD still rubs itself to the Russians and asks them for cuddles.

Its this servile attitude towards Russia and the former USSR that is one of the main reasons why I dispise the SPD so much. They have practically no expert for relations with America amongst their ranks, but many who want to close ties with Russia and prevent any hard stand against it.

Fairness demandfs to mention that the Greens and the FDP also are against weapons for the Ukraine. In this, all threee coaltioj parties are united. They imply that this way the world will change and they can enforce negotiations. Immature. Me too is against trading military weapons and equipment like any other common trading good, except between alliance partners, but I think of this as a general rule and I can imagine scenarios where exceptions should be considered. This is one of them. (But I do not want to see exceptions becoming the new normal, like it was in the past.) The Ukraine needs weapons, not lukewarm words and gestures claiming a high-riding moral superiority.

In the end, the Germans only want to not threaten their businesses with Russia. Thats the centre of gravity in their Russia policy. Its even understandable, because else the damages for Germany would be extreme. Its easy for other European nations to demand more sanctions. Nobody, by a huge margin, will be affected as badly from that, as Germany.

What I would demand from germany is, however, that it starts to untangle its economic needs from Russia. But Russia is a German obsession and a national pet hobby. As I say since so many years: economies that are as depending on exports as the German economy is, are not really strong, but are weak and vulnerable. Dependency and strength simply do not wear the same colours. Economic strength is: autarky.

mapuc · 01-20-22, 09:51 AM

^ After I had posted my last comment and turned my computer off I watched the midnight news here they showed a short clip from this interview and they was interviewing the Danish Minister of Foreign affairs who sad:

NATO should help Ukraine with weapon if Putin gives the order.

Markus

Jimbuna · 01-20-22, 10:02 AM

US President Joe Biden has said he thinks his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin will "move in" on Ukraine but does not want "full-blown war".

He told a news conference Mr Putin would pay a "serious and dear price" for invading, but indicated a minor incursion might be treated differently.

The White House later stressed any Russian military move would be met with a swift, severe response from the West.

The Kremlin warned the comments could further destabilise the situation.

Russia has some 100,000 troops near the border but denies planning an invasion.

President Putin has made a series of demands to the West, insisting Ukraine should never be allowed to join Nato and that the defensive alliance abandons military activity in Eastern Europe.

"We have made it clear that any further eastward expansion of Nato is unacceptable," Mr Putin said at a televised press conference last month.

Mr Putin's exact reasons for the build up of Russian troops near Ukraine's border are unknown, but many believe it is an attempt to force the West to take Russia's security demands seriously.

On Thursday, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting foreign ministers from Germany, France and the UK to co-ordinate Western strategy over a potential invasion of Ukraine. He has previously warned that Russia could attack Ukraine at short notice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60061300

mapuc · 01-20-22, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Mr Putin's exact reasons for the build up of Russian troops near Ukraine's border are unknown, but many believe it is an attempt to force the West to take Russia's security demands seriously.

Then I was right when I wrote
The soldiers and material near the Ukrainian border could also be a signal to NATO.

Markus

Onkel Neal · 01-20-22, 12:13 PM

Russians reportedly have 100,000 troops staged, right?

Ukraine populations is like 43 million. So why don't they stage 5 million armed and supplied men on the border and give the Rooskies that's what's up.

Jimbuna · 01-20-22, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Russians reportedly have 100,000 troops staged, right?

Ukraine populations is like 43 million. So why don't they stage 5 million armed and supplied men on the border and give the Rooskies that's what's up.

Well, they've got nothing to lose because the west won't be getting involved physically/militarily.

mapuc · 01-20-22, 02:12 PM

There's a lot more than these 100000 soldiers and material near the Russian Ukrainian border.

They said in the news some weeks ago that Russia moves troops and material to the border each day-So for this indicate that the number 100000 is wrong.

Markus

Exocet25fr · 01-20-22, 02:18 PM

I just don't want the Nato to get involved. Let Biden handles it if he feels strongly about it !

Skybird · 01-20-22, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Russians reportedly have 100,000 troops staged, right?

Ukraine populations is like 43 million. So why don't they stage 5 million armed and supplied men on the border and give the Rooskies that's what's up.

"Armed and supplied" might be the problem here. They still lack desperately ATGMs, and SAMs. Britain delivered ATGMs, the US assault rifles. But not enough. Mayn Ukrainian soldiers need to fight with soto speak rusty rifles from the immediate post-war era. WWII post-war that means. Russia can field some of the most modern weaponry and platforms in the world. And they are still prioritize artillery and missile artillery, in this they are masters, not equals amongst equals. Bad news for an inferior ifantry army at the receiving end of fire.

Nobody likes to get mauled by an APC rolling over him or a gunship playing field hockey with corpses just for nothing.

In the end, the Ukraine is a big country, even for 100.000 pairs of Russian boots on the ground. I doub the Russians want all of it, they "only" want the eastern half. Bad enough.

ET2SN · 01-20-22, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Well, they've got nothing to lose because the west won't be getting involved physically/militarily.

I'm not so sure about that.

The preferred solution uses diplomacy, but it isn't the only solution.

mapuc · 01-20-22, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

I'm not so sure about that.

The preferred solution uses diplomacy, but it isn't the only solution.

It depends on how fast the Russian can take the part they want to occupy. IF they take it within a week I don't see NATO have enough time to send military aid to Ukraine.

Markus

01-19-22, 05:07 PM	#242
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,408 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I just don't want the US to get involved. Let the EU handle it if they feel strongly about it. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-19-22, 05:34 PM	#243
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,744 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	^ I share that sentiment, but cannot see why European troops should want to get engaged there either. Its a failed state, or better: a failed political system. We can and should give them assistance (intel, satellite recce) and material support (weapons, ammo) to fight themselves, but we should not fight their fights for them. Meanwhile Biden said in today's press conference he believes that "Putin must do something" and that "he will move into Ukraine", in form of what Biden called a "minor incursion": means not a prolonged stay, and not a total occupation of all the country. Me too thinks the Russians will invade, but probably not to overrun the complete country. I am just not so certain that they only stay for a limited time. The goal could be to split and divide the country, as Catfish mentioned earlier: a pro-European Western part, and a pro-Russian Eastern part. Historically and culturally that makes kind of cold-blooded sense. Also, if Western Ukraine then later joins NATO against Russia's will, they have the Eastern Ukraine as the buffer zone they want. Their allocation of forces extends their embrace of the Ukraine, whcih must split forces to defend more of its borders, weakening it this way. Is also a threat to Poland and the Baltic: they get "embraced", too. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-19-22, 07:54 PM	#244
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,592 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	The Ukrainian ambassador was interviewet on our news channel yesterday. What Ukrainian is asking for is AA, AAA or similar. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-20-22, 01:17 AM	#245
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,744 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Not from the Germans, that much is for sure. Heck, part of the SPD and Greens even want to dismantle NATO! And that part of the SPD still rubs itself to the Russians and asks them for cuddles. Its this servile attitude towards Russia and the former USSR that is one of the main reasons why I dispise the SPD so much. They have practically no expert for relations with America amongst their ranks, but many who want to close ties with Russia and prevent any hard stand against it. Fairness demandfs to mention that the Greens and the FDP also are against weapons for the Ukraine. In this, all threee coaltioj parties are united. They imply that this way the world will change and they can enforce negotiations. Immature. Me too is against trading military weapons and equipment like any other common trading good, except between alliance partners, but I think of this as a general rule and I can imagine scenarios where exceptions should be considered. This is one of them. (But I do not want to see exceptions becoming the new normal, like it was in the past.) The Ukraine needs weapons, not lukewarm words and gestures claiming a high-riding moral superiority. In the end, the Germans only want to not threaten their businesses with Russia. Thats the centre of gravity in their Russia policy. Its even understandable, because else the damages for Germany would be extreme. Its easy for other European nations to demand more sanctions. Nobody, by a huge margin, will be affected as badly from that, as Germany. What I would demand from germany is, however, that it starts to untangle its economic needs from Russia. But Russia is a German obsession and a national pet hobby. As I say since so many years: economies that are as depending on exports as the German economy is, are not really strong, but are weak and vulnerable. Dependency and strength simply do not wear the same colours. Economic strength is: autarky. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-20-22, 09:51 AM	#246
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,592 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	^ After I had posted my last comment and turned my computer off I watched the midnight news here they showed a short clip from this interview and they was interviewing the Danish Minister of Foreign affairs who sad: NATO should help Ukraine with weapon if Putin gives the order. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-20-22, 10:02 AM	#247
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,168 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	US President Joe Biden has said he thinks his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin will "move in" on Ukraine but does not want "full-blown war". He told a news conference Mr Putin would pay a "serious and dear price" for invading, but indicated a minor incursion might be treated differently. The White House later stressed any Russian military move would be met with a swift, severe response from the West. The Kremlin warned the comments could further destabilise the situation. Russia has some 100,000 troops near the border but denies planning an invasion. President Putin has made a series of demands to the West, insisting Ukraine should never be allowed to join Nato and that the defensive alliance abandons military activity in Eastern Europe. "We have made it clear that any further eastward expansion of Nato is unacceptable," Mr Putin said at a televised press conference last month. Mr Putin's exact reasons for the build up of Russian troops near Ukraine's border are unknown, but many believe it is an attempt to force the West to take Russia's security demands seriously. On Thursday, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting foreign ministers from Germany, France and the UK to co-ordinate Western strategy over a potential invasion of Ukraine. He has previously warned that Russia could attack Ukraine at short notice. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60061300 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-20-22, 12:13 PM	#249
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Russians reportedly have 100,000 troops staged, right? Ukraine populations is like 43 million. So why don't they stage 5 million armed and supplied men on the border and give the Rooskies that's what's up.

01-20-22, 02:12 PM	#251
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,592 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	There's a lot more than these 100000 soldiers and material near the Russian Ukrainian border. They said in the news some weeks ago that Russia moves troops and material to the border each day-So for this indicate that the number 100000 is wrong. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-20-22, 02:18 PM	#252
Exocet25fr Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Paris/France Posts: 1,135 Downloads: 255 Uploads: 0	I just don't want the Nato to get involved. Let Biden handles it if he feels strongly about it ! __________________ \"Le Triomphant\" listens you !