North Korea unveils new submarine-launched missile

ikalugin · 01-15-21, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

No, the US did not hit the USSR or Red China when we had the nuclear monopoly. We don't want to hit anyone. But having an unstable dictator threaten us make a difference.

The problem here is... that the same arguments about instability, malice, etc were being applied at the time to say the Soviet leaders of the early nuclear age.

Same is happening now, except the names and countries in question have changed and a new set of entities are being deamonised in the media in not a dissimilar way to the good old McCarthism.

But this time there is no way to save face when mutual vulnerability happens, as DPRK is not a great power and as such a potentially worthy opponent the way USSR or PRC were back then. Which drives the infromational fevor further.

Still it is here now and you should be more careful what you wish for - as those military options have consequences, for example US cities burning.

ikalugin · 01-15-21, 07:35 PM

And to get back to the problem - the DPRK's build up is in large part the result of US choices, such as killing de-nuclearisation initiatives both in Korea and in Iran.

Still, we are ready for any contingencies, and for us any outcome that does not include stronger US position in Korea (close to our borders) is entirely acceptable.

Skybird · 01-15-21, 08:08 PM

Take out boomers, okay. They will find a way to retaliate. Non-traditonal ways. A nukie in Pyöngyan does this and that damage. A nuclear device in Los Angeles does a very different scale of damage. Thats the problem when trading nukie blows with a primtive state - ther eis not much damage you cna do to him, while he can do a lot od dsamage to what is yours. He may be a have-not. That you are rich is what makes you vulnerable.

Today it may be too late to do anything. It should have been done while the evil still was small and weak.
But Western politicians are obsessed with the idea that they need to let it grow strong and come to power first before then deciding that they cannot do anythign anymore. Sports and fairness and all that.

Although already Lao Tse said that the evil must be fought while it still is small and weak.

Now, Iran. Years and years of wasted time so far. I doubt they will learn the trick this time around.

Same mistake, repeated again and again and again. Its hopeless.

Mr Quatro · 01-15-21, 08:58 PM

Sky! How would they know?

Just tell the crew it's a torpedo exercise ... point and shoot

Only the CO, XO and sonar know the truth of course you still need the POTUS/Joint Chief's of Staff/COMSUBPAC/Submarine Squadron 1/SUBRON 7 and a few helicopters to look for debris, other than that it would be a breeze.

Everyone shrugs

Skybird · 01-15-21, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Sky! How would they know?

Buddhists have no SSNs, and the Red Cross does not use them either.

Torvald Von Mansee · 01-15-21, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Sky! How would they know?

Just tell the crew it's a torpedo exercise ... point and shoot

Only the CO, XO and sonar know the truth of course you still need the POTUS/Joint Chief's of Staff/COMSUBPAC/Submarine Squadron 1/SUBRON 7 and a few helicopters to look for debris, other than that it would be a breeze.

Everyone shrugs

Hence why a NK should be sunk in deep water.

However, I wouldn't put it past Russia to go looking for its wreck to show to the North Koreans.

ikalugin · 01-16-21, 06:46 AM

Ironically the SSBs are not even there to deter or threaten US and allies, it is there to deter PRC as it is harder to PLA-N to operate in the Sea of Japan, in an extensive ASW operation precisely because of US and US allies there.

Nor is this technology development really new, they have been working on large diameter solid fuel rocket motors for a while now (and with good results), as this is the pathway for a reliable alert light ICBM as well (hence why Russia, China and US also went that way).

In terms of deterrence choices the combination is fairly standard - deterrence by punishment (fear inducement mostly here rather than cost inducement), deterrence by uncertainty/ambiguity. The later had also been used by US, the so called “madman doctrine” by Nixon.

Cybermat47 · 01-15-21, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Take out boomers, okay.

That seems pretty ageist to me.

Exocet25fr · 01-19-24, 12:50 PM

Jimbuna · 01-19-24, 01:46 PM

01-15-21, 07:35 PM	#2
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	And to get back to the problem - the DPRK's build up is in large part the result of US choices, such as killing de-nuclearisation initiatives both in Korea and in Iran. Still, we are ready for any contingencies, and for us any outcome that does not include stronger US position in Korea (close to our borders) is entirely acceptable. __________________ Grumpy as always.

01-15-21, 08:08 PM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,683 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Take out boomers, okay. They will find a way to retaliate. Non-traditonal ways. A nukie in Pyöngyan does this and that damage. A nuclear device in Los Angeles does a very different scale of damage. Thats the problem when trading nukie blows with a primtive state - ther eis not much damage you cna do to him, while he can do a lot od dsamage to what is yours. He may be a have-not. That you are rich is what makes you vulnerable. Today it may be too late to do anything. It should have been done while the evil still was small and weak. But Western politicians are obsessed with the idea that they need to let it grow strong and come to power first before then deciding that they cannot do anythign anymore. Sports and fairness and all that. Although already Lao Tse said that the evil must be fought while it still is small and weak. Now, Iran. Years and years of wasted time so far. I doubt they will learn the trick this time around. Same mistake, repeated again and again and again. Its hopeless. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-15-21, 08:58 PM	#4
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sky! How would they know? Just tell the crew it's a torpedo exercise ... point and shoot Only the CO, XO and sonar know the truth of course you still need the POTUS/Joint Chief's of Staff/COMSUBPAC/Submarine Squadron 1/SUBRON 7 and a few helicopters to look for debris, other than that it would be a breeze. Everyone shrugs __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

01-16-21, 06:46 AM	#7
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Ironically the SSBs are not even there to deter or threaten US and allies, it is there to deter PRC as it is harder to PLA-N to operate in the Sea of Japan, in an extensive ASW operation precisely because of US and US allies there. Nor is this technology development really new, they have been working on large diameter solid fuel rocket motors for a while now (and with good results), as this is the pathway for a reliable alert light ICBM as well (hence why Russia, China and US also went that way). In terms of deterrence choices the combination is fairly standard - deterrence by punishment (fear inducement mostly here rather than cost inducement), deterrence by uncertainty/ambiguity. The later had also been used by US, the so called “madman doctrine” by Nixon. __________________ Grumpy as always.

01-19-24, 12:50 PM	#9
Exocet25fr Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Paris/France Posts: 1,135 Downloads: 255 Uploads: 0	__________________ \"Le Triomphant\" listens you !

01-19-24, 01:46 PM	#10
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,743 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!