US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 821

Skybird · 01-07-21, 07:45 AM

The German State Department tightened its travel and safety advisories for the United States following the Capitol storm. "A continuation of the protests, including the use of firearms, cannot be ruled out," it says. The general situation could change at any time, especially in the transition phase until the introduction of the new American government on January 20, 2021, and unrest could flare up again. Germans are recommended, among other things, to follow the news and to register on the Foreign Office's crisis prevention list.

And then the Russians. I love it when they are being ironic:

After the riot at the Capitol, the spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry described the electoral system in the United States as "archaic". The incidents are an internal American matter, said Maria Sakharova on Thursday, according to the Interfax agency. "Nonetheless, we are once again paying attention to the fact that the US electoral system is archaic, it does not meet today's democratic standards." That leaves room for "numerous violations," said Sakharova. Russia wishes the American people "that they will survive this dramatic moment in their own history with dignity".

The electoral system - archaic? Russian understatement.

Both messages from the Liveblog of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

Gorpet · 01-07-21, 07:50 AM

Yes when its BLM and Antifa protesters rampaging around Washington. The National Guard can have no weapons and the police where holed up around their stations to keep them from being burned to the ground. But hey that's all good, Lets see if Uncle Joe and Kamala keep defunding the police forces around the country But up gun and fund their Praetorian Guards that will swear allegiance to the Party. We shall see.

u crank · 01-07-21, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk66

The next generation has to fix it and https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-votes-age-us/ makes me confident about that.

Me not so much. The next generation is being thoroughly indoctrinated by one political philosophy. That lack of diversity of political thought does not bode well for a free Democratic society. I have seen this kind of political groupthink in my own family. It is disheartening to see it happening.

Quote:

Frankly if you follow this discussion here, you see that a lot of "older" people are not capable to realize that the world and economy has changed. They are still in the 20th century.

Well the question begs to be asked. Is that change for the better?

Gorpet · 01-07-21, 08:12 AM

Lets see if there are calls for an investigation and justice for that female protester when we learn what her name was.And did she leave behind any children and family while she was expressing her First Amendment right. But in America those rights are only for the Leftist. She got justice right then and there from the end of a gun barrel. Justice by those in Power or coming into Power has always been a two edged Sword. I think i'll take the motorcycle out for a long ride and hope some lunatic lefty doesn't run me off the road or shoot me just because its a Harley.

Méo · 01-07-21, 08:43 AM

I think that any non American members here should refrain themselves from commenting, or maybe should I say condemning any US internal politics. No matter how unreal or dismayed all this seems to us.

It is my deep belief that it would just have the opposite effect. That foreigners judge without knowing their reality, their culture and their history. Or worse, it can be interpreted as a condescending lesson. In the end, it's their contry and they are the ones who are gonna face the consequences.

This is just a general comment and not specifically targeted at what is going on right now.

But on the other hand, Americans should also be careful before condemning another country's internal politics. Because you know, it's never that simple...

Skybird · 01-07-21, 08:59 AM

I just waited for somebody showing up claiming that it was Antifa and lefties causing the riot, stopwatch in my hand, wondering what took that somebody so long.

Meo,
we would not care so much if these affairs would not cause such a massive fallout throughout the world. If America shakes and falters, the effects will be felt everywhere - and that includes Canada and Europe as well. That comes as part of the cost for being a world-influencing superpower. If Norway would dismantle its monarchy, as an exmaple, this would mean little if not nothing for America, not even for Europe. If America dismantles its democracy, on the other hand, it means an existential threat for the whole Western world. We cannot afford not to be closely interested, it touches upon our own vital interests.

Cybermat47 · 01-07-21, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Méo

In the end, it's their contry and they are the ones who are gonna face the consequences.

It’s not just them. America is a massive global power, and as such its internal politics spill out into other countries.

If America is crippled by internal instability, that opens up huge opportunities for the DPRK, PRC, Russia, Iran, and other countries that have had their ambitions stifled by US influence. I think it’s reasonable to say that those states would see a substantial increase in their influence and economic power. In an extreme case, the ROK, ROC, former Soviet states, and Iraq could even be at risk of military action by their hostile neighbours.

u crank · 01-07-21, 09:25 AM

Oh my.

DC Mayor Told Federal Law Enforcement To Stand Down Day Before Violent US Capitol Riot

https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/06...-capitol-riot/

Quote:

“To be clear, the District of Columbia is not requesting other federal law enforcement personnel and discourages any additional deployment without immediate notification to, and consultation with, MPD if such plans are underway,” Bowser wrote in a letter to acting U.S. Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, acting Secretary of Defense Chris Miller, and Secretary of the Army Ryan D. McCarthy.

Quote:

“The District of Columbia Government has not requested personnel from any other federal law enforcement agencies,” she continued. “To avoid confusion, we ask that any request for additional assistance be coordinated using the same process and procedures.”

I wonder if she now realizes that her decision was a mistake?

Jimbuna · 01-07-21, 09:33 AM

Oops!

Skybird · 01-07-21, 10:05 AM

^ Always concerned. Always deescalating at all cost. Always appeasing. Always hopefull.

Sometimes you cannot avoid it - you must make a stand, and not give an inch anymore. A red line in the sand. "Until here - and not one inch further."

Quote:

It's not like we weren't warned. In the days leading up to the rally, online forums popular with the far right were filled with threats of violence. Such rhetoric dovetails with the actions of far-right vigilantes and alt-right gangs like the Proud Boys. On the eve of the rally, the leader of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, was arrested and accused of destroying a Black Lives Matter sign at a historic Black church at a previous pro-Trump rally.

These groups haven't been hiding their weapons, their aggression or their intent to cause injury and mayhem, with Black Lives Matter supporters often bearing the brunt of the violence. According to researcher Ari Weil, there were over 100 car attacks on demonstrators against police brutality from May to September. At the Aug. 22 "Back the Blue" rally in Portland, Oregon, armed "militia" members assaulted protesters. Vigilantes patrolled the streets in Philadelphia in early June, attacking protesters and reporters with baseball bats.
2020 also saw the rise of the "boogaloo movement," a far-right militia culture bent on instigating a second Civil War, which has instigated multiple killings and attacks. Conspiracy theories about secret elites seem to have been a motivating factor in the Christmas Day bombing in Nashville, Tennessee. Theories like QAnon, which have been tied to numerous acts of violence and terrorism plots, are moving into mainstream discourse in the Republican Party (and even into the halls of Congress).

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...gs-ncna1253205
And further it says:

Quote:

Conspiracies lead to acts of violence because they infect people with the belief that they are heroes destined to stop profound acts of evil that less enlightened citizens can't see. But seeing satanic cabals of pedophiles around every corner creates a distinctly unpleasant emotional state. "It's like they're virtually traumatizing themselves. It's like they're inventing stories, experiencing those stories, and then living through the vicarious trauma of the stories," said Sarah Hightower, an expert on the QAnon conspiracy theory culture.
We now live in a bifurcated reality, where more than 75 percent of Republicans (which translates to tens of millions of people) believe the election could be fraudulent, a belief that requires a tacit commitment to conspiracies. Tens of millions of people believe that the world is not as we see it but that, instead, a shadow class is pulling the strings.
Indeed, despite indisputable evidence that it was far-right supporters of Trump who stormed the Capitol, conservative activists have already begun spinning an alternative version of events, in which it was really anti-fascist activists who wreaked havoc. "Do not be surprised if we learn in the days ahead that the Trump rioters were infiltrated by leftist extremists," Fox News' Brit Hume tweeted, turning to the far right's favorite boogeyman, antifa, to divert responsibility from those caught destroying government property on video.

And CNN finds even stronger true words:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/p...iot/index.html

That will become two very dangerous weeks ahead. Trump should and must be removed. Not doing so is like playing Russian roulette.

Stgill, over 100 RINOs in congressstill supported his lies and evidence-free allegatiosn yesterday. To their eternal shame.

Onkel Neal · 01-07-21, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstanko6

Neal...

I understand what you’re saying. I get mad because people from other countries try to tell me how our election system works and how it not works. And that’s not fair. I served my country and now I’m serving as a police officer. And overnight I’m going to become a criminal for doing my job with these fools getting “placed” into office. So these people don’t understand what it’s like to be me right now. I will a treated like a crook when i do my job. And I do it damn well. It’s easy for people to sit back smoke weed and think that life’s great having a bunch of socialists steal a country. I’m damn angry.

I 100% understand and I don't blame you. To your credit, you are willing to step back and discuss it. I get pretty amped up too, at times. A lot of members do, and it's understandable. However, it's a simple fact that if we all do not manage to keep the peace in this forum, we will ruin what we have - a place where people with different viewpoints can meet and discuss.

So, if it gets to be too much, do what I do, just log off for a few days and go about your business. Nothing that is said here will change the world either way, it's just talk. The main point here is, have your say and make your point but let's all avoid directly attacking each other.

hang in there,

Wolferz · 01-07-21, 10:17 AM

It's over. Put it down and leave it alone.
If you keep picking at it it's going to get infected.
Chump is out no matter how much rhetoric he tweets.
The whole dog and pony show has been typical of all the elections I've born witness to.
16.5 of them.
This latest one has been the clowniest by far. But, I am reassured that the democratic republic that I once swore oath to defend with my life is still intact.
Through the whole process of choosing a new Commander in Chief, my BS meter has been pegged out at maximum this time around. As a patriotic American who still retains most of his common sense, I can safely say that all of the broohaha has been caused by one guy. D.J. Trump. A type A personality who has been spoiled by his own opinion of himself as a winner who never loses. Guess what dude... ya lost. Don't let the door hit you in your fourth point of contact on the way out.

Méo · 01-07-21, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Meo,
we would not care so much if these affairs would not cause such a massive fallout throughout the world. If America shakes and falters, the effects will be felt everywhere - and that includes Canada and Europe as well. That comes as part of the cost for being a world-influencing superpower. If Norway would dismantle its monarchy, as an exmaple, this would mean little if not nothing for America, not even for Europe. If America dismantles its democracy, on the other hand, it means an existential threat for the whole Western world. We cannot afford not to be closely interested, it touches upon our own vital interests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

It’s not just them. America is a massive global power, and as such its internal politics spill out into other countries.

If America is crippled by internal instability, that opens up huge opportunities for the DPRK, PRC, Russia, Iran, and other countries that have had their ambitions stifled by US influence. I think it’s reasonable to say that those states would see a substantial increase in their influence and economic power. In an extreme case, the ROK, ROC, former Soviet states, and Iraq could even be at risk of military action by their hostile neighbours.

You got a point and one I was more thinking about external politics.

But neverthless I'm convinced that carefulness should be kept in mind when discussing certain internal issues as it can easely be perceived as condescension and then having the opposite effect.

mapuc · 01-07-21, 10:57 AM

I'm a little worried.

We all know what happened yesterday in Washington.

Before I went to bed I watch a little more CNN and there they had an issue where they quoted a GOP who work close with Trump

He has gone insane.

He still have fourteen days as the President. I hope nothing more will happen before or after, Trump leaves the Oval Office.

Edit
I'm also worried about what will happen in and around the White House, if the Congress and Pence invoke the 25th Amendment
End edit

Markus

Catfish · 01-07-21, 12:07 PM

"Corporate group urges officials consider Trump's removal 'to preserve democracy'"

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of a major U.S. business group that represents 14,000 companies including Exxon Mobil Corp, Pfizer Inc and Toyota Motor Corp urged senior U.S. officials to consider removing President Donald Trump from office after supporters of the outgoing president stormed the U.S. Capitol."

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-...-idUSL1N2JH2YD

Exxon Mobil .. sure they must be antifa or communists, working for Biden to kill the oil industry

01-07-21, 07:45 AM	#12301
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,727 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The German State Department tightened its travel and safety advisories for the United States following the Capitol storm. "A continuation of the protests, including the use of firearms, cannot be ruled out," it says. The general situation could change at any time, especially in the transition phase until the introduction of the new American government on January 20, 2021, and unrest could flare up again. Germans are recommended, among other things, to follow the news and to register on the Foreign Office's crisis prevention list. And then the Russians. I love it when they are being ironic: After the riot at the Capitol, the spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry described the electoral system in the United States as "archaic". The incidents are an internal American matter, said Maria Sakharova on Thursday, according to the Interfax agency. "Nonetheless, we are once again paying attention to the fact that the US electoral system is archaic, it does not meet today's democratic standards." That leaves room for "numerous violations," said Sakharova. Russia wishes the American people "that they will survive this dramatic moment in their own history with dignity". The electoral system - archaic? Russian understatement. Both messages from the Liveblog of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-07-21, 08:12 AM	#12304
Gorpet Still Searching Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: A country in Evolution Posts: 1,030 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Lets see if there are calls for an investigation and justice for that female protester when we learn what her name was.And did she leave behind any children and family while she was expressing her First Amendment right. But in America those rights are only for the Leftist. She got justice right then and there from the end of a gun barrel. Justice by those in Power or coming into Power has always been a two edged Sword. I think i'll take the motorcycle out for a long ride and hope some lunatic lefty doesn't run me off the road or shoot me just because its a Harley. Last edited by Gorpet; 01-07-21 at 08:23 AM.

01-07-21, 08:59 AM	#12306
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,727 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I just waited for somebody showing up claiming that it was Antifa and lefties causing the riot, stopwatch in my hand, wondering what took that somebody so long. Meo, we would not care so much if these affairs would not cause such a massive fallout throughout the world. If America shakes and falters, the effects will be felt everywhere - and that includes Canada and Europe as well. That comes as part of the cost for being a world-influencing superpower. If Norway would dismantle its monarchy, as an exmaple, this would mean little if not nothing for America, not even for Europe. If America dismantles its democracy, on the other hand, it means an existential threat for the whole Western world. We cannot afford not to be closely interested, it touches upon our own vital interests. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-07-21, 09:33 AM	#12309
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,044 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Oops! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-07-21, 10:17 AM	#12312
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Que the fat singer... It's over. Put it down and leave it alone. If you keep picking at it it's going to get infected. Chump is out no matter how much rhetoric he tweets. The whole dog and pony show has been typical of all the elections I've born witness to. 16.5 of them. This latest one has been the clowniest by far. But, I am reassured that the democratic republic that I once swore oath to defend with my life is still intact. Through the whole process of choosing a new Commander in Chief, my BS meter has been pegged out at maximum this time around. As a patriotic American who still retains most of his common sense, I can safely say that all of the broohaha has been caused by one guy. D.J. Trump. A type A personality who has been spoiled by his own opinion of himself as a winner who never loses. Guess what dude... ya lost. Don't let the door hit you in your fourth point of contact on the way out. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

01-07-21, 07:50 AM	#12302
Gorpet Still Searching Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: A country in Evolution Posts: 1,030 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Yes when its BLM and Antifa protesters rampaging around Washington. The National Guard can have no weapons and the police where holed up around their stations to keep them from being burned to the ground. But hey that's all good, Lets see if Uncle Joe and Kamala keep defunding the police forces around the country But up gun and fund their Praetorian Guards that will swear allegiance to the Party. We shall see.

01-07-21, 08:43 AM	#12305
Méo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,153 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	I think that any non American members here should refrain themselves from commenting, or maybe should I say condemning any US internal politics. No matter how unreal or dismayed all this seems to us. It is my deep belief that it would just have the opposite effect. That foreigners judge without knowing their reality, their culture and their history. Or worse, it can be interpreted as a condescending lesson. In the end, it's their contry and they are the ones who are gonna face the consequences. This is just a general comment and not specifically targeted at what is going on right now. But on the other hand, Americans should also be careful before condemning another country's internal politics. Because you know, it's never that simple...

01-07-21, 10:57 AM	#12314
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,572 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I'm a little worried. We all know what happened yesterday in Washington. Before I went to bed I watch a little more CNN and there they had an issue where they quoted a GOP who work close with Trump He has gone insane. He still have fourteen days as the President. I hope nothing more will happen before or after, Trump leaves the Oval Office. Edit I'm also worried about what will happen in and around the White House, if the Congress and Pence invoke the 25th Amendment End edit Markus Last edited by mapuc; 01-07-21 at 11:10 AM.

01-07-21, 12:07 PM	#12315
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,805 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"Corporate group urges officials consider Trump's removal 'to preserve democracy'" "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of a major U.S. business group that represents 14,000 companies including Exxon Mobil Corp, Pfizer Inc and Toyota Motor Corp urged senior U.S. officials to consider removing President Donald Trump from office after supporters of the outgoing president stormed the U.S. Capitol." https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-...-idUSL1N2JH2YD Exxon Mobil .. sure they must be antifa or communists, working for Biden to kill the oil industry __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.