A bunch of questions on aircraft

[gap]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The problem of the torpedo not launching properly was there also though - or at least, for a period of time. Part of the problem was plane speed, as well as plane height when launching, which may have been "fixed" in v1.5. I do not recall where it was, but someone mentions working on fixing the backwards torpedo launch, and it may well have been a TDW thread instead of Rubini...

I have made a quick search on this topic on subsim forums, and all the mentions I have found are about SHIV and SH5. I myself experienced the issue while importing in game a beautiful B-25 model by JU_88.

I am not 100% sure about that, but I think the fix resides in eqp node naming or in its positioning relative to the 3D model of the plane

Originally Posted by propbeanie

There is a write-up on that - in the AirStrike.cfg itself??

Those comments are not entirely clear to me, for one thing they don't say how the 'attenuation factor' is applied, and the part relative to 'coverage factor' calculation is a bit nebulous. I would have preferred a set of formulas, but at least those notes shed some light on the general meaning of the main settings. Most of them are multipliers, so if we double one we should half the Default Air Strike Probability (or viceversa), if we want to keep about the same air raid probability.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I am not certain of "availability". It seems that an AirBase seemingly generates more airplanes than it should, sometimes apparently generating its new response off of the airplanes that should still be enroute back to base, but are outside the player's "spawn range".

I am sure I took this "availability" concept from one of your previous replies, but I probably misunderstood you. Thank tou for clarifying that!

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Yes, we "tweak" those every so often in attempts to get a more predictable response. Probably one of the main problems found in FotRSU, and this applies to Sea assets as well, is the disparate sources of a lot of the assets imported to the mod. Each author of a ship or plane has their own idea of how to do things, and they build them for their own version of the game, which that "environment" may well be significantly different from what they are currently being used in...

That's a general proble. In theory, before being merged into a mega-mod, any mod should be tuned to work well with the rest, but indeed that's not always an easy task.

Anyway, talking more specifically about air strikes, the only aircraft property with a direct effect on their probability, should be max radius and maybe max speed.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You sir, are correct! The planes were not modeled to be a major player in the game, and the player was not supposed to want to look at the beautiful scenery and wonderfully modeled airplanes and ships of the game, but to rather stay inside his little steel coffin, water dripping from every surface, and grin and bear it looking through a periscope instead... lol - That way, you never see the airplane crash after it dive bombs you, or you never see that what took your boat to the bottom was the plane itself, and not its bomb, which had fallen harmlessly 30 meters away... lol - It is a balancing act to get a decent, appropriate airplane response. Plus, the planes do not "dog fight", so their only true natural enemy are surface ships and submarines... - unless, of course, they crash into each other, which they do from time to time... or crash into hills that are over 500m in height... "AI" need not apply for a job here. Only AD (Artificial Dum-dum) is accepted by the game.

You make it sound like a joke whereas the dumb aircraft could be described as modding drama.

Just one note: TDW developed a patch for making SH5 aircraft to "dogfight". Well, their air duels don't come even near to an actual dogfighting, but seen from a periscopic perspective...

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by gap

I have made a quick search on this topic on subsim forums, and all the mentions I have found are about SHIV and SH5. I myself experienced the issue while importing in game a beautiful B-25 model by JU_88.

Some of the "discussions" are in unrelated threads. TDW was famous for divulging details on another of his mods, while discussing a newer one. But I thought someone in the SH3 threads, while discussing Rubini's torpedoes had done something to "fix" them before SH4 had "fixed" them... dad-blame worn-out RAM I've got in my noggin...

Originally Posted by gap

I am not 100% sure about that, but I think the fix resides in eqp node naming or in its positioning relative to the 3D model of the plane

wish I could remember...

Originally Posted by gap

Those comments are not entirely clear to me, for one thing they don't say how the 'attenuation factor' is applied, and the part relative to 'coverage factor' calculation is a bit nebulous. I would have preferred a set of formulas, but at least those notes shed some light on the general meaning of the main settings. Most of them are multipliers, so if we double one we should half the Default Air Strike Probability (or viceversa), if we want to keep about the same air raid probability.

Unfortunately, they don't say what type of multiplier, such as one seems to be as it is written, while the next seems to be a percentage, but I am never certain if I'm dealing with 1 x 0.0001, or a 1 x 0.01 when they say '0.01' for some of the settings. In other words, is it really a one hundredth, or is it one one hundredth of a percent, which is a "one ten thousandth"... lol

Originally Posted by gap

I am sure I took this "availability" concept from one of your previous replies, but I probably misunderstood you. Thank tou for clarifying that!

Again though, I am not certain where that "line" is that the game considers a platform as "available" to go back out once again, but I have seen it where a "fast" airplane, such as a Wildcat, will seem either like it's late to the response, or that maybe the game ran an early AirStrike probability, because I have already seen 4 of 4 Wildcats around my sub, and yet, just after they have dropped off of radar, there are a couple coming toward me again. No other way to explain, unless they did happen to come from a 2nd airbase, but followed the same routing as the first base... ?? The only way to find out, is to do a series of tests with only one airbase with only one air group with a very limited supply of airplanes, and see what happens when the enemy is detected...

Originally Posted by gap

That's a general proble. In theory, before being merged into a mega-mod, any mod should be tuned to work well with the rest, but indeed that's not always an easy task.

AI visual, and other sensors also come into play, and not just for the airplanes. The ships or shore installations that might report a sighting of the enemy, or a radar detection, or a huff-duff, etc., all come into play for the "balance". We have seen seemingly innocuous changes affect more than we would like, and oftentimes, it isn't noticed until a large group of people get their hands on the mod... "What happened to the DD? Are they deaf dumb & blind?", only to have the next round have a "What happened to the DD? I died within 2 minutes of shooting my torpedoes! They were on my like stink, and sank me on the first pass!"... lol

[QUOTE=gap;2714991]Anyway, talking more specifically about air strikes, the only aircraft property with a direct effect on their probability, should be max radius and maybe max speed.[quote]
yes, and I'm not certain the game considers the plane's speed. I would imagine the game considers the plane type also, especially if the detection is a long way off.

Originally Posted by gap

You make it sound like a joke whereas the dumb aircraft could be described as modding drama.

Just one note: TDW developed a patch for making SH5 aircraft to "dogfight". Well, their air duels don't come even near to an actual dogfighting, but seen from a periscopic perspective...

I do remember having fun watching that quite a few years ago... lol

[gap]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Unfortunately, they don't say what type of multiplier, such as one seems to be as it is written, while the next seems to be a percentage, but I am never certain if I'm dealing with 1 x 0.0001, or a 1 x 0.01 when they say '0.01' for some of the settings. In other words, is it really a one hundredth, or is it one one hundredth of a percent, which is a "one ten thousandth"... lol

Hi Beanie, your doubts illustrate pretty well why I prefer formulas to textual notes. Airfield and night modifiers for sure are simple multipliers (1=100%).'Probability Increase' factors are not that clear though. They might be in percent (1=1%) and they might be actually added to the calculated probability. If that was true, supposing that the calculated probability of an airfield spawning planes is, le'ts say, 20% and a 'Probability Increase on Player Detection' of 40 applies, the final probability would be 20% x (1 + 0.4) = 28%

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The only way to find out, is to do a series of tests with only one airbase with only one air group with a very limited supply of airplanes, and see what happens when the enemy is detected...

I agree

Originally Posted by propbeanie

AI visual, and other sensors also come into play, and not just for the airplanes.

You are righty. In the worst possible scenario, if two enemy airbases were placed within each other's range, aircraft from one of the bases would trigger a response from the other base and viceversa. Unless aircraft "availability" is considered, I suppose that would trigger a endless loop of violence lol

That would be a nice testing situation btw.

Originally Posted by gap

I'm not certain the game considers the plane's speed. I would imagine the game considers the plane type also, especially if the detection is a long way off.

If memory serves, once TDW said that aircraft had to be within n minutes (travelling time) from an enemy unit for them to be considered for a "response" strike against that unit, "n" being a function of the loigical steps setting. Not 100% sure about that, but if that was true, faster aircraft would have an higher chance to spawn since the would cover the same distance in lesser time than slower ones...