[REL] Small Motor Coaster

[kapuhy]

EDIT: I removed download link for standalone version of this ship, because fixed and improved version is already available both in TWoS, and for non-TWoS players in my mod The Little Ships

Got to stay at home much longer than I'd usually like so I dusted off my old modding projects, and I have something to share with you

After a lot of trial and error I finally managed to make a working GR2 format ship:



It's a small 250 GRT coastal merchant. I used NF_boat_1 as base template so it won't break in half but other than that it works fine.

Some more screens:

https://imgur.com/a/0h9ooBs

[vdr1981]

Looks really great kapuhy !

EDIT:

Known issues:

- zones certainly need adjusting, ship currently sinks too easily.

The reason for "easy" sinking may be the outer red distress flare damage zone. As I can see, all other damage boxes are packed inside it. This means that when distress flare zone is destroyed, all other zones within it will be destroyed as well , regardless of their hit points. This may need some adjustments.



Nevertheless, the ship really looks great!

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

. As I can see, all other damage boxes are packed inside it. This means that when distress flare zone is destroyed, all other zones within it will be destroyed as well , regardless of their hit points. This may need some adjustments.

That's how it works? If so it would completely change my understanding of how zones work, I thought damage is counted separately for each box within explosion zone each time ship gets hit (and thinking that I made flare zone encompass entire ship so that the flare will go up regardless where ship was damaged - it's not like someone would say " nah, they just blew our bow off, no cause for alarm on the stern"). I'll look into it, thanks!

EDIT: does it also happen for overlapping zones or just if one box is completely inside another?

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

EDIT: does it also happen for overlapping zones or just if one box is completely inside another?

If I remember correctly, in case of overlapping zones, percentage values are taken. For example , if zone A takes 30% of volume of zone B, then when zone A is destroyed it will take 30% of hit points of zone B. Don't hold me on this one though...


I'll check my old RSD thread and if I find anything useful I'll let you know.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

If I remember correctly, in case of overlapping zones, percentage values are taken. For example , if zone A takes 30% of volume of zone B, then when zone A is destroyed it will take 30% of hit points of zone B. Don't hold me on this one though...


I'll check my old RSD thread and if I find anything useful I'll let you know.

At first glance, weird system though I'm sure I can find some creative ways to use it and yes, if you could point me to where I could learn how exactly zones work it would be much appreciated.

I'll rework zones this weekend hopefully and start work on next ship.

[gap]

You made it kapuhy

To my knowledge, this is the first fully fledged AI unit ever released for SH5 directly in GR2 format, and she looks nice too. Bravo!

Out of curisosity: I have noticed that your ship doesn't include any FX file.
As far as I can understand, those files are used for linking certain bones (opportunely placed around units' 3D meshes) with explosions/fire/smoke effects stored in Baza_FX.dat. A perfect copy of the same bones, but without 3D meshes, is also found in the *_FX.GR2 file of each stock sea unit though, to be honest, I don't understand the need for this redundancy.

More in general, I have not clear how the said effects are triggered by ship damage and how they interact with the effects linked to damage zones (see note below), nonetheless you have probably noticed how in SH5 fires and smoke seem to come out from portholes, doors, etc. where one of the stock ships has been damaged, and I am pretty sure that such a precise effect placement is achieved by means of those files.

Have you tried experimenting with them?

NOTE: a possible mechanism, but that's just my speculation, is that whenever a damage box is damaged beyond a certain level, and a given particle effect is triggered (according to Zones.cfg settings), the game checks if the damaged box overlaps one or more FX_* bone linked to the same effect. If yes, one instance of the said effect will originate from each of those bones, otherwise one instance of it will originate from the center of the box (or maybe from where the last impact has happened)

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

You made it kapuhy

And I would never have made it without all the help and information I got from you thanks!

Originally Posted by gap

Out of curisosity: I have noticed that your ship doesn't include any FX file.

The reason for it is simple - I used NF_boat_1, smallest GR2 ship, as template (I wanted to keep first attempt as simple as possible). As it turns out it's also the only GR2 ship without FX file whatsoever. But, I'll most probably use one with FX file for next ship so I'll keep what you've wrote here in mind when I try to make it work.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

And I would never have made it without all the help and information I got from you thanks!

Helping other modders to make the best all the modding tools and knowledge that has been gathered so far, is part of my pleasure. Let we both thank the ones who have contributed with their time and energies to this knowledge and these tools.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

The reason for it is simple - I used NF_boat_1, smallest GR2 ship, as template (I wanted to keep first attempt as simple as possible). As it turns out it's also the only GR2 ship without FX file whatsoever. But, I'll most probably use one with FX file for next ship so I'll keep what you've wrote here in mind when I try to make it work.

The decision to start from a relatively simple unit was a wise one. Even though you used NF_boat_1 as a template for your own ship, you are always in time to add the discussed feature to it, but I realise that before doing that you are probably interested in testing your skills with some other unit. Talking about that, what happened with your motor lauch? I was thinking that she would have been your first 'official' release

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Talking about that, what happened with your motor lauch? I was thinking that she would have been your first 'official' release

I wanted to keep it as simple as possible, and coaster had the advantage of matching NF_boat_1 exactly as far as number of meshes is concerned (one prop, one rudder, one boat, one funnel and one crane that I used for mast). I'm still planning to make gr2 Fairmile later though.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I wanted to keep it as simple as possible, and coaster had the advantage of matching NF_boat_1 exactly as far as number of meshes is concerned (one prop, one rudder, one boat, one funnel and one crane that I used for mast). I'm still planning to make gr2 Fairmile later though.

[vdr1981]

Hey kapuhy!

I realized that without some extensive changes, your new coaster won't be regularly shown in the campaign which is really shame IMO. So, in order to honor your work I started full scale reorganization of world's fishing/coastal lines. I have also added dedicated coastal cargo random groups.





When I'm done your new coaster will be regularly seen in the appropriate areas, near coast, cruising between ports randomly...


Cheers!

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Hey kapuhy!

I realized that without some extensive changes, your new coaster won't be regularly shown in the campaign which is really shame IMO. So, in order to honor your work I started full scale reorganization of world's fishing/coastal lines. I have also added dedicated coastal cargo random groups.





When I'm done your new coaster will be regularly seen in the appropriate areas, near coast, cruising between ports randomly...


Cheers!

This is amazing news vdr1981!

When these coastal cargo groups are in place, will they be able to support other similar ships as well? The reason I'm asking is because right now I'm working on importing several other coastal merchants I have modeled earlier into SH5, and converting my old Fairmile model to gr2 format as well (as possible escort for coastal shipping). I do not, however, have a slightest idea how to integrate these ships into the campaign properly when they'll be ready.

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

This is amazing news vdr1981!

When these coastal cargo groups are in place, will they be able to support other similar ships as well? The reason I'm asking is because right now I'm working on importing several other coastal merchants I have modeled earlier into SH5, and converting my old Fairmile model to gr2 format as well (as possible escort for coastal shipping). I do not, however, have a slightest idea how to integrate these ships into the campaign properly when they'll be ready.

Of course, once I'm done with shipping lines layers, adding new ship groups will be matter of minutes, it won't even require campaign restart IIRC...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Hey kapuhy!

I realized that without some extensive changes, your new coaster won't be regularly shown in the campaign which is really shame IMO. So, in order to honor your work I started full scale reorganization of world's fishing/coastal lines. I have also added dedicated coastal cargo random groups.





When I'm done your new coaster will be regularly seen in the appropriate areas, near coast, cruising between ports randomly...


Cheers!

Good news!

On a partly related note, in the last months (but I should better say in the last few years), I have been elaborating my own ideas on German - especially Ubootwaffe - engagement rules. If you check uboat.net's list of ships attacked/sunk by German U-boats during WWII, you will notice that many neutral or even Axis vessels were attacked not only by mistake, but because they had broken some of these rules. The list comprises ships of the following nations: Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Vichy France, Sweden, Brazil and USA (before Pearl Harbor), but those are just the first nations that come to my mind; the list could be longer.

As a consequence of my research, I think that SH5's nations and national rosters should be revised. For many of the neutral and for few of the German-friendly nations featured in game, we should have 'allied clones'. This is something I did in part when I first setup OH's defsides.cfg, but then I don't think that those cloned nations (in the said file I used the 'Free' prefix to distinguish them) were used the way I had thought them, and some of them weren't even given any ship in their roster.

To help the player distinguishing 'true' neutral/friendly vessels from the one belonging to the corresponding 'Free' nations (that will fly the same flag), the latter should be given one or more of the following features:

• not bringing any national identification mark (merchant ensign and/or neutrality markings);
• being armed;
• sailing at night without lights;
• sailing within an Allied convoy and/or being escorted by Allied escorts;
• being obviously bound for a British port or for British waters.

In case of doubt, the player could surface his boat, approach the suspect vessel, and judge her stance from her reaction (just like real U-boat captains did, especially at the beginning of the conflict). Zigzagging, repentine changes of speed/course, attempts to ram the surface boat or SOS messages would give away her hostile nature. Another help to the player might come from a set of campaign messages, warning him on any switch of sides by one of the featured nations, and giving him instructions and clues on the possible presence of "fake friends" and blockade runners within a certain area and/or from a certain date.

Most of the points I have listed above will require some changes in the traffic layers. If you are willing to bring them, I am ready to expand further my idea and to provide you with all the information and support you will need. I realize that the changes I am proposing involve a laborious work, but together with the increasing target variety, I think they have the potential of bringing the realism of SH5 to the next level

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

Good news!

On a partly related note, in the last months (but I should better say in the last few years), I have been elaborating my own ideas on German - especially Ubootwaffe - engagement rules. If you check uboat.net's list of ships attacked/sunk by German U-boats during WWII, you will notice that many neutral or even Axis vessels were attacked not only by mistake, but because they had broken some of these rules. The list comprises ships of the following nations: Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Vichy France, Sweden, Brazil and USA (before Pearl Harbor), but those are just the first nations that come to my mind; the list could be longer.

As a consequence of my research, I think that SH5's nations and national rosters should be revised. For many of the neutral and for few of the German-friendly nations featured in game, we should have 'allied clones'. This is something I did in part when I first setup OH's defsides.cfg, but then I don't think that those cloned nations (in the said file I used the 'Free' prefix to distinguish them) were used the way I had thought them, and some of them weren't even given any ship in their roster.

To help the player distinguishing 'true' neutral/friendly vessels from the one belonging to the corresponding 'Free' nations (that will fly the same flag), the latter should be given one or more of the following features:

• not bringing any national identification mark (merchant ensign and/or neutrality markings);
• being armed;
• sailing at night without lights;
• sailing within an Allied convoy and/or being escorted by Allied escorts;
• being obviously bound for a British port or for British waters.

In case of doubt, the player could surface his boat, approach the suspect vessel, and judge her stance from her reaction (just like real U-boat captains did, especially at the beginning of the conflict). Zigzagging, repentine changes of speed/course, attempts to ram the surface boat or SOS messages would give away her hostile nature. Another help to the player might come from a set of campaign messages, warning him on any switch of sides by one of the featured nations, and giving him instructions and clues on the possible presence of "fake friends" and blockade runners within a certain area and/or from a certain date.

Most of the points I have listed above will require some changes in the traffic layers. If you are willing to bring them, I am ready to expand further my idea and to provide you with all the information and support you will need. I realize that the changes I am proposing involve a laborious work, but together with the increasing target variety, I think they have the potential of bringing the realism of SH5 to the next level

Yes , I perfectly understand what you mean and I had similar toughs my self as well, but when I think of it and how much work these changes would actually require, I must I admit I tend to get scared a bit.


I have plans to ease up a bit neutral traffic in "legitimate" hostile waters for first two campaign chapters (problem of neutral ships in hostile waters isn't so pronounced in later war years) and I'll certainly reach out to you when I start to work on these stuff...


On a bright side, my introduction of illuminated vessels in TWoS took away large part of players confusion regarding targets selection. We now even have an add-on which will make certain nation to use only illuminated vessels until it joins to one of the confronted coalitions...