Base Time 2018

[propbeanie]

Replies inside "quote" are in blue - Orange for emphasis of FrontRunner's text:

Originally Posted by Front Runner

For the "mod" app, do you mean Radio Manager? - Yes!


Anyway, I have just performed several tests. I could not get the error to occur in WOTP or TMO/RSRD/OTC/IP. - velly intellesting... I tried to keep everything the same as possible, compatibility settings, running as admin, etc. In each iteration, I started a new career , 1944, Pearl Harbor command, Balao, etc. etc.
I started a new career in FOTRSUv80 RC2 and made three saves, daylight, SS and midnight. The error happened.
I'm still trying to isolate the issue. So stand by for more information.


The thing is, I could get it to replicate in FOTRSUv80 RC2, but using the same procedures, I could not get it to replicate in WOTP, or TMO/RSRD/OTC/IP, at least, not yet.

This is a weird one. I'll try what you suggest and report back again.

I have seen this outside of FotRSU, but not very often - but it may have been FOTRS years ago... (A clue! A clue!) Thanks for all your testing FrontRunner.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Replies inside "quote" are in blue - Orange for emphasis of FrontRunner's text:

I have seen this outside of FotRSU, but not very often - but it may have been FOTRS years ago... (A clue! A clue!) Thanks for all your testing FrontRunner.

OK. Update......
After deleting and/or archiving all of my Document/Save Folders for all iterations of SH4, deleting all copies of the game, then reinstalling a pristine copy of SH4 v1.5 and applying only the FOTRSUv80 RC2, I was able to replicate the error described above by starting a new career, 1944 Pearl Harbor Command, Balao Class boat, outside the harbor. I then played at 512x time compression until I had made 4 saves. Outside the harbor (daylight), at Sunset, at Midnight and at Sunrise. When I close FOTRSUv80 and then start the game again, any one of the individual save games load correctly only if I load them from the Main Menu and only that one time.
If I then try to load any other save game from either the "Esc" key menu while in game, or, selecting Main Menu from the "Esc" key menu and loading from there, the loaded game Celestial Sphere is now seriously out of sync with Base Time. (i.e. Broad daylight at midnight.)


If I Exit to Windows and then start the game again, each individual save game loads correctly but only that once. So, I only get one shot to load the game I am playing. If I decide to load any other save game, while in game, or from the Main Menu, the second one loads with the Celestial Sphere FUBAR!

The only way to get the correct save game to load is to close the game, restart, and load that one game only!

I was unable to reproduce this error in a fresh install of Wolves of the Pacific (Vanilla) using the same parameters.

Next stop......I'll try FOTRSUv71 as I don't remember this happening while I was saving and loading my games while 1x testing.

This does appear to be an FOTRSU issue though. I am looking for someone else to confirm.

For now, I'm done testing for the day.....

[propbeanie]

If I can out of the knee-deep weeds, briars and brambles we're stuck in right now, I'll give similar a whirl FrontRunner... I'm trying to imagine what would do that "time shift"... we've had issues with the AI settings, to the point that it almost seems "backwards", like day is night, and night is day, as far as enemy AI is concerned... is it related?... is it Area 51?... maybe only The Shadow knows...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

OK.

Next stop......I'll try FOTRSUv71 as I don't remember this happening while I was saving and loading my games while 1x testing.

This does appear to be an FOTRSU issue though. I am looking for someone else to confirm.

Update.....I just tested it in FORTSUv71 and I got the same results as in FOTRSUv80 RC2. I guess that shows how infrequently I rely on a previously saved game while in game.

As long as you make serial saves along the way, you can always quit the game, start again and load the save game you wish.

However, as Propbeanie said, if you are playing, and go back, (or forward), to any other save game, and make subsequent save games, ALL of those subsequent save games will be erroneous. You can still go back to a save game previous to that time and THOSE save games will still be OK.

So far, this issue seems to be isolated to FOTRSU supermod.

Propbeanie, which FOTRSU team member might I PM with to assist in finding and fixing this particular issue?

Next stop......I'll try TMO/RSRD.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

Next stop......I'll try TMO/RSRD.

OK.....I've tested this issue in TMO/RSRD and TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP and I have been unable to reproduce the issue using these supermods.

I have discovered another clue!

When loading a previous (or later) save game, using supermod FOTRSUv.*, from within the game, using either the "Esc" key menu or choosing the Main Menu from the "Esc" key menu, the loaded game forgets all of the navigation routing, and probably all of the Celestial Sphere data, that was saved in the original save game. The navigation routing comes up blank and I have to set new waypoints. This does not occur when using WOTP Vanilla or in the TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP. The information is definitely within the save game, but is not included when loading that save game from within FOTRSU.v*
I have also tried re-loading the same save game over itself. That does not fix the issue. When loading a previous (or later) save game, as close as I can tell, the Celestial Sphere defaults to the time of day when the Career started. I possibly can take a "Sun-Sight" with the Observation Scope to verify this, at least for the azimuth, maybe not the elevation. Hmmmm....
[UPDATE] OK, I've looked at this and as soon as the previous or later save game loads, the AZIMUTH and ELEVATION of the Sun in the misplaced Celestial Sphere are approximately the same in each instance. I have some screenshots using the Observation Periscope at max elevation on the azimuth of the sun and the halo looks about the same in each screenshot.


I can exit the game, start again, load the save game and the navigation routing is intact. I believe this is a big clue that, hopefully, may lead to a solution to this issue. The issue is an incomplete loading of a saved game file from within the game. This issue appears to affect only FOTRSU.v*
I'm thinking that there is a missing ";" ":" "," "." "/" or someother modifier somewhere, most likely contained within the original FOTRSU.

I don't know where to start looking as I assumed that the "Save game/Load game" functions were hard coded in the sh4.exe. Now, I think not. Some modification has prevented a full and accurate loading of a save game from within the FOTRSU.v* supermod.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

I don't know where to start looking as I assumed that the "Save game/Load game" functions were hard coded in the sh4.exe. Now, I think not. Some modification has prevented a full and accurate loading of a save game from within the FOTRSU.v* supermod.

My testing shows that this issue does not effect War Patrols, Single Missions or Training.

So, I designed a test. Starting Career at Pearl Harbor, January 1944, Balao Class boat (although I don't believe this matters, then again, everything matters....) [EDIT] It turns out that January 1944 matters. Everything matters!

Start Career. Set course 270. Speed 1/3. Draw your course on the map a good long distance and then make waypoints every 10 degrees of Longitude. This will make sure that there are enough waypoints so that when you load the save game you will see that the waypoints have been saved as well. Note the azimuth of the sun. On course 270 @ 1304 on Jan. 3, 1944, I am reading an azimuth of 299 degrees relative bearing.
Save the game. I saved it as "1304 C270 S299 Daylight".

Then, Ahead Standard and Time Compression 512x until 1501. You are now out of range of Pearl Harbor traffic and you can Time Compress in place at Latitude 21D 14' N Longitude 158D 24' W. ALL STOP @ 0 knots. From here on we will stay in position. Note the azimuth of the sun. I am reading 321 at 1501. Save the game. I saved it as "1501 C270 S321 Daylight".

Then, Time Compression until Sunset (1704). Note the azimuth of the sun, 337. Save the game. "1704 C270 S337SS Sunset"

Then, Time Compression until Midnight. Save the game. "0001 C270 MIDNIGHT".

Then, Time Compression until Sunrise (0615). Note the azimuth of the sun, 204. Save the game. "0615 C270 S204SR Sunrise".

Now, close the game, start again and load any of the above save games and verify that the azimuth of the sun is as you originally recorded it and that all of your waypoints are there.

I loaded the "1501....Daylight" save and verified it as good.

Then, I loaded "1304.....Daylight". Make sure you are on course 270. I used Ahead 1/3 and made sure my rudder was 0. The sun azimuth has changed ever so slightly to 297. (2 degrees less than the 299 originally recorded.) Also, all of my waypoints have disappeared.

Then, I re-loaded the "1501.....Daylight". Sun azimuth 296. No waypoints.

Then, I loaded "1706.....Sunset". C270 Ahead 1/3. The sun azimuth is 296. There are no waypoints.

Then, I loaded "0001.....Midnight". C270 Ahead 1/3. The sun azimuth is 296.
There are no waypoints.

Then, I loaded "0615......Sunrise". C270 Ahead 1/3. The sun azimuth is 296.
There are no waypoints.

Then, I went back to "1304.....Daylight". C270 Ahead 1/3. Sun azimuth is 297. Still 2 degrees less than the original 299. There are no waypoints.

I did several more combinations of tests with the same results including loading "1304.....Daylight" Sun azimuth 299. Verified waypoints OK.
Then reloading the exact same "1304.....Daylight". Sun azimuth 297 and NO waypoints.

My conclusion is that whenever you load a second save game within a single session of Career play, that second save game's Celestial Sphere will revert to nearly the same position it was in at the start of your career upon leaving base, even though all of your save games, individually, load correctly the first time. My reloads were all sun azimuth of 296 - 297 regardless of the time of day that I had made the original save games. Sunrise, Sunset, Midday, Noon, Midnight etc. The missing waypoints upon reloading a save game is a BIG indicator that this is happening.

I really hope that you are all following this. It is important for FOTRSU.

Once again, as long as you are playing and making serial saves without loading a previous (or later) save game while in game, then all of your save games are probably OK. The best practice I can recommend until this problem is solved, is that whenever you wish to load a save game while playing FOTRSU.v* is to close SH4, reopen it, then load the save game.

I'm now going to check Single Mission play to see if this happens there as well.

[Front Runner]

As far as my testing goes, this issue only affects Career Mode in FOTRSU.v* (Maybe FOTRS original but I don't have a copy that I can test.)
I have been UNABLE to replicate the issue in WOTP Vanilla, TMO/RSRD, TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP, and in FOTRSU.v* Single Missions including Sub School and War Patrol. It only affects Career Mode in FOTRSU.

It comes down to this, when in Career Mode in FOTRSU.v*, the save games "write" the correct data, and, "read" the correct data only the first time it is loaded, after that, loading or re-loading any subsequent "load game", it seems that there occurs an "incomplete reading" of the data. I've tried using an old archived copy of FileManager.dll. The game worked but the same issue persisted. I made sure that MultiSH4 was running as administrator. That didn't solve the issue.
Anyone have any suggestions?

Meanwhile, I can still play Career Mode FOTRSU.v80 making sure that I don't load one save game over another without first quitting and re-starting the game.

[propbeanie]

I'm following closely, and trying to think of something that would load in the Campaign, that does not load otherwise, that could influence what you're seeing... there are certain files called in Campaign.cfg that load in the campaign only, others that load in some or all of the game, but again, nothing that would directly affect 'time'... - This might be some deep divin' 'vestigatin'...

A couple of thoughts: 1. FotRSU is based on FOTRS, and v1.2 & 1.3 are available on Subsim.com 2. FOTRS is based on TMO v1.7... I've got v1.6x somthing or other for SH4 v1.4, so I'll try your Test Mission on those...