Base Time 2018

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

Next stop......I'll try TMO/RSRD.

OK.....I've tested this issue in TMO/RSRD and TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP and I have been unable to reproduce the issue using these supermods.

I have discovered another clue!

When loading a previous (or later) save game, using supermod FOTRSUv.*, from within the game, using either the "Esc" key menu or choosing the Main Menu from the "Esc" key menu, the loaded game forgets all of the navigation routing, and probably all of the Celestial Sphere data, that was saved in the original save game. The navigation routing comes up blank and I have to set new waypoints. This does not occur when using WOTP Vanilla or in the TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP. The information is definitely within the save game, but is not included when loading that save game from within FOTRSU.v*
I have also tried re-loading the same save game over itself. That does not fix the issue. When loading a previous (or later) save game, as close as I can tell, the Celestial Sphere defaults to the time of day when the Career started. I possibly can take a "Sun-Sight" with the Observation Scope to verify this, at least for the azimuth, maybe not the elevation. Hmmmm....
[UPDATE] OK, I've looked at this and as soon as the previous or later save game loads, the AZIMUTH and ELEVATION of the Sun in the misplaced Celestial Sphere are approximately the same in each instance. I have some screenshots using the Observation Periscope at max elevation on the azimuth of the sun and the halo looks about the same in each screenshot.


I can exit the game, start again, load the save game and the navigation routing is intact. I believe this is a big clue that, hopefully, may lead to a solution to this issue. The issue is an incomplete loading of a saved game file from within the game. This issue appears to affect only FOTRSU.v*
I'm thinking that there is a missing ";" ":" "," "." "/" or someother modifier somewhere, most likely contained within the original FOTRSU.

I don't know where to start looking as I assumed that the "Save game/Load game" functions were hard coded in the sh4.exe. Now, I think not. Some modification has prevented a full and accurate loading of a save game from within the FOTRSU.v* supermod.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

I don't know where to start looking as I assumed that the "Save game/Load game" functions were hard coded in the sh4.exe. Now, I think not. Some modification has prevented a full and accurate loading of a save game from within the FOTRSU.v* supermod.

My testing shows that this issue does not effect War Patrols, Single Missions or Training.

So, I designed a test. Starting Career at Pearl Harbor, January 1944, Balao Class boat (although I don't believe this matters, then again, everything matters....) [EDIT] It turns out that January 1944 matters. Everything matters!

Start Career. Set course 270. Speed 1/3. Draw your course on the map a good long distance and then make waypoints every 10 degrees of Longitude. This will make sure that there are enough waypoints so that when you load the save game you will see that the waypoints have been saved as well. Note the azimuth of the sun. On course 270 @ 1304 on Jan. 3, 1944, I am reading an azimuth of 299 degrees relative bearing.
Save the game. I saved it as "1304 C270 S299 Daylight".

Then, Ahead Standard and Time Compression 512x until 1501. You are now out of range of Pearl Harbor traffic and you can Time Compress in place at Latitude 21D 14' N Longitude 158D 24' W. ALL STOP @ 0 knots. From here on we will stay in position. Note the azimuth of the sun. I am reading 321 at 1501. Save the game. I saved it as "1501 C270 S321 Daylight".

Then, Time Compression until Sunset (1704). Note the azimuth of the sun, 337. Save the game. "1704 C270 S337SS Sunset"

Then, Time Compression until Midnight. Save the game. "0001 C270 MIDNIGHT".

Then, Time Compression until Sunrise (0615). Note the azimuth of the sun, 204. Save the game. "0615 C270 S204SR Sunrise".

Now, close the game, start again and load any of the above save games and verify that the azimuth of the sun is as you originally recorded it and that all of your waypoints are there.

I loaded the "1501....Daylight" save and verified it as good.

Then, I loaded "1304.....Daylight". Make sure you are on course 270. I used Ahead 1/3 and made sure my rudder was 0. The sun azimuth has changed ever so slightly to 297. (2 degrees less than the 299 originally recorded.) Also, all of my waypoints have disappeared.

Then, I re-loaded the "1501.....Daylight". Sun azimuth 296. No waypoints.

Then, I loaded "1706.....Sunset". C270 Ahead 1/3. The sun azimuth is 296. There are no waypoints.

Then, I loaded "0001.....Midnight". C270 Ahead 1/3. The sun azimuth is 296.
There are no waypoints.

Then, I loaded "0615......Sunrise". C270 Ahead 1/3. The sun azimuth is 296.
There are no waypoints.

Then, I went back to "1304.....Daylight". C270 Ahead 1/3. Sun azimuth is 297. Still 2 degrees less than the original 299. There are no waypoints.

I did several more combinations of tests with the same results including loading "1304.....Daylight" Sun azimuth 299. Verified waypoints OK.
Then reloading the exact same "1304.....Daylight". Sun azimuth 297 and NO waypoints.

My conclusion is that whenever you load a second save game within a single session of Career play, that second save game's Celestial Sphere will revert to nearly the same position it was in at the start of your career upon leaving base, even though all of your save games, individually, load correctly the first time. My reloads were all sun azimuth of 296 - 297 regardless of the time of day that I had made the original save games. Sunrise, Sunset, Midday, Noon, Midnight etc. The missing waypoints upon reloading a save game is a BIG indicator that this is happening.

I really hope that you are all following this. It is important for FOTRSU.

Once again, as long as you are playing and making serial saves without loading a previous (or later) save game while in game, then all of your save games are probably OK. The best practice I can recommend until this problem is solved, is that whenever you wish to load a save game while playing FOTRSU.v* is to close SH4, reopen it, then load the save game.

I'm now going to check Single Mission play to see if this happens there as well.

[Front Runner]

As far as my testing goes, this issue only affects Career Mode in FOTRSU.v* (Maybe FOTRS original but I don't have a copy that I can test.)
I have been UNABLE to replicate the issue in WOTP Vanilla, TMO/RSRD, TMO/RSRD/OTC/ISP, and in FOTRSU.v* Single Missions including Sub School and War Patrol. It only affects Career Mode in FOTRSU.

It comes down to this, when in Career Mode in FOTRSU.v*, the save games "write" the correct data, and, "read" the correct data only the first time it is loaded, after that, loading or re-loading any subsequent "load game", it seems that there occurs an "incomplete reading" of the data. I've tried using an old archived copy of FileManager.dll. The game worked but the same issue persisted. I made sure that MultiSH4 was running as administrator. That didn't solve the issue.
Anyone have any suggestions?

Meanwhile, I can still play Career Mode FOTRSU.v80 making sure that I don't load one save game over another without first quitting and re-starting the game.

[propbeanie]

I'm following closely, and trying to think of something that would load in the Campaign, that does not load otherwise, that could influence what you're seeing... there are certain files called in Campaign.cfg that load in the campaign only, others that load in some or all of the game, but again, nothing that would directly affect 'time'... - This might be some deep divin' 'vestigatin'...

A couple of thoughts: 1. FotRSU is based on FOTRS, and v1.2 & 1.3 are available on Subsim.com 2. FOTRS is based on TMO v1.7... I've got v1.6x somthing or other for SH4 v1.4, so I'll try your Test Mission on those...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I'm following closely, and trying to think of something that would load in the Campaign, that does not load otherwise, that could influence what you're seeing... there are certain files called in Campaign.cfg that load in the campaign only, others that load in some or all of the game, but again, nothing that would directly affect 'time'... - This might be some deep divin' 'vestigatin'...

A couple of thoughts: 1. FotRSU is based on FOTRS, and v1.2 & 1.3 are available on Subsim.com 2. FOTRS is based on TMO v1.7... I've got v1.6x somthing or other for SH4 v1.4, so I'll try your Test Mission on those...

It’s not really affecting time at all. It’s affecting the background that’s loaded. The base time of the backup and the load are the same. The water is probably the same. The celestial sphere that loads appears to be the default from starting the career from “in base” rather than the one in the save game. The waypoints are also missing. It’s like it loads parts of the save game along with whatever happens when you start the career from “in base.”. All the data in the save game is correct as can be seen by quitting and restarting. Some of it is either not being read properly or is being overwritten when loading a save game over an already loaded save game. It’s almost like a double exposure. What is key here is that upon opening the second save game, the program thinks you are just starting your career from in base and provides no waypoints and the default celestial sphere from 1300 hours the day you start your first patrol. It seems like it's combining two data sets, one from the save came and one from the career start.

[propbeanie]

That was why I used 'time', in the apostrophes, was that it is the appearance of a time passage, or time and space not synchronizing properly. It could be an error of commission, or more likely, and error of omission, maybe an invalid portion of data that overwrites something that it shouldn't... dunno. I won't have time to set things up to try out my old TMO until this evening, mostly because I haven't found the mod files yet... surprise surprise... I do have FOTRS v1.2 on a computer though, and hope to get to testing it this afternoon. I'll let you know what I find with it...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

That was why I used 'time', in the apostrophes, was that it is the appearance of a time passage, or time and space not synchronizing properly. It could be an error of commission, or more likely, and error of omission, maybe an invalid portion of data that overwrites something that it shouldn't... dunno. I won't have time to set things up to try out my old TMO until this evening, mostly because I haven't found the mod files yet... surprise surprise... I do have FOTRS v1.2 on a computer though, and hope to get to testing it this afternoon. I'll let you know what I find with it...

[Jeff-Groves]

Swap the stock scene.dat into FotRSU and test it again.
That would eliminate the scene.dat or prove it's the problem.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Swap the stock scene.dat into FotRSU and test it again.
That would eliminate the scene.dat or prove it's the problem.

I did a quick test using Set B save games that had previously failed the Q/S/L/R test with a stock scene.dat. The issue remains.

I'll do another test using the stock scene.dat starting a new career Jan. 1944 out of Pearl which will be more definitive.

[propbeanie]

Yeah, new career, since the Save data has the old stuff. My laptop's hard drive is gone... nothing, except the heads hitting the stop (or the platter). It's not even recognized in the BIOS - er UEFI, or whatever...