10 Dead in Santa Fe, Texas, School Shooting. Student shooter in custody.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

And any thought of an abolishing of the 2nd Amendment is a non-starter: the 2nd is part of the Bill Of Rights, a vital portion of the Constitution so sacrosanct as to be beyond touch...

I'm not suggesting that the 2nd Amendment be abolished and I don't think the gun control lobby is either. Anything can be controlled by an authoritarian Gov't. Your right to bear arms might be severely restricted by your ability to buy a gun or ammo. I think that for gun rights people in the US this is their big concern.

Now, I am basing this on the presumption cigarette smoking is not guaranteed by the Canadian Constitution as a specific fundamental right, but I could be wrong

No there isn't but there is no law preventing people from smoking either. Yet the habit is slowly being restricted with the specific aim of ending it completely.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

I'm not suggesting that the 2nd Amendment be abolished and I don't think the gun control lobby is either. Anything can be controlled by an authoritarian Gov't. Your right to bear arms might be severely restricted by your ability to buy a gun or ammo. I think that for gun rights people in the US this is their big concern.

...

..and I didn't say you made such a suggestion nor did I mean to imply the gun lobby condoned an abolishing; what I was saying is the 2nd, as part of the Bill Of Rights is so much a part of the American fabric as to be beyond touch, making the arguments and claims about massive governmental seizure of guns pure fantasy and seems to be only a ruse by the NRA, gun manufacturers, and certain political interests to keep up a dwindling membership and political base. And the idea of a totalitarian government ever holding sway in the US is equally as far-fetched; with a free press, social media, and other means, the ability for any party, group or individual to achieve a totalitarian hold on the government is pretty impossible; even Trump, who seems to have "banana republic" tendencies can't get away with anything with all the coverage and analysis of his actions. The truth is its not the 2nd that is the best defense of America: it is the First Amendment since without the free flow of information, the chance of something like a repeal of the 2nd would very much greatly increase; knowing what the government is up to is the best defense against the government accruing too much power; if they are 'going to come for your guns', it will only succeed because you won't know they're coming...


There is a reason the First Amendment is in that lofty position: the Founding Fathers knew what was most important to preserve all that followed in the document - the ability of Americans to keep an eye on the workings of their leaders, the right to voice their concerns, and the protections of the free flow of information and ideas. Tyranny and oppression only thrive in the dark vacuum of silence and deception...


















<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

..and I didn't say you made such a suggestion nor did I mean to imply the gun lobby condoned an abolishing; what I was saying is the 2nd, as part of the Bill Of Rights is so much a part of the American fabric as to be beyond touch, making the arguments and claims about massive governmental seizure of guns pure fantasy and seems to be only a ruse by the NRA, gun manufacturers, and certain political interests to keep up a dwindling membership and political base.

Again I'm going to 'politely' suggest that it won't be done that way and that is their concern. And that I understand why they would have that concern.

And the idea of a totalitarian government ever holding sway in the US is equally as far-fetched; with a free press, social media, and other means, the ability for any party, group or individual to achieve a totalitarian hold on the government is pretty impossible;

I probably gave the wrong impression there. I didn't mean to suggest that a 'totalitarian government' would ever take control in the US. Sorry for that impression. On the other hand I am suggesting that a legitimate government, duly elected can act in an 'authoritarian' manner. It happens all the time. Examples of that are currently unfolding but that is another story in another thread.

The truth is its not the 2nd that is the best defense of America: it is the First Amendment since without the free flow of information, the chance of something like a repeal of the 2nd would very much greatly increase;

Again, I am going to suggest that those who don't respect the freedom of expression are not going to attempt to repeal or even amend the 1st Amendment. There are other means to restrict the rights of others whom you disagree with. Again there are lots of examples but none more obvious than what is going on at college campuses in the US and here in Canada. If you don't like what your opponent is saying you get him barred from speaking by accusing him of hate speech, misogyny, racism or any other sin and effectively bypass the 1st Amendment. These decisions are made arbitrarily by like minded people with a political agenda. And in some cases they are getting away with it. The people who are doing this are the lawyers , bureaucrats, bean-counters and politicians of the future. Won't that be something to look forward to.