[REL] Real ASW Mod

[gap]

Originally Posted by padi

@gap

I'm online today for the first time in many months, so I have to look at your mod first before I could say anything about it and the useness of the models.
But they sound really interesting and useful!
Are they made with the same file structure like the Stock-DCs?

No mod so far: just 3D meshes. Their structure can be customized depending on the need. In general, I like keeping my models for SHIII as "modular" as possible so that, if need be, I can re-use the same parts many times, without need of re-importing the every time

[gap]

Originally Posted by gap

No mod so far: just 3D meshes. Their structure can be customized depending on the need. In general, I like keeping my models for SHIII as "modular" as possible so that, if need be, I can re-use the same parts many times, without need of re-importing the every time

Let me give you an example of what I mean for "modular" models. Let's say that we are importing different throwers and DC marks in game. As long as we store them in the same file, there is no need that we import each DC model two times (one for the charge loaded on the thrower and one for the actual ammo depth charge): the same mesh can be linked both to the thrower model and to the DC ammo node. This approach will be very useful since your mod features different thrower and DC marks: using it we can create many combinations by still keeping file size acceptable. Moreover, by keeping the harbor mesh saparate from the DC mesh, we can do harbors to disappear once the DC enters in the water using the visible underwater render controller. I hope I am making myself clear...

[padi]

Originally Posted by gap

Let me give you an example of what I mean for "modular" models. Let's say that we are importing different throwers and DC marks in game. As long as we store them in the same file, there is no need that we import each DC model two times (one for the charge loaded on the thrower and one for the actual ammo depth charge): the same mesh can be linked both to the thrower model and to the DC ammo node. This approach will be very useful since your mod features different thrower and DC marks: using it we can create many combinations by still keeping file size acceptable. Moreover, by keeping the harbor mesh saparate from the DC mesh, we can do harbors to disappear once the DC enters in the water using the visible underwater render controller. I hope I am making myself clear...

Yes you are very clear.
I think that I was unclear.

I answer tomorrow because the names for the different labels in the file structure I need to explain my error aren't coming to my mind...

[gap]

Originally Posted by padi

Yes you are very clear.
I think that I was unclear.

I answer tomorrow because the names for the different labels in the file structure I need to explain my error aren't coming to my mind...

Okay, I am looking forward to your answers

[padi]

Originally Posted by gap

Let me give you an example of what I mean for "modular" models. Let's say that we are importing different throwers and DC marks in game. As long as we store them in the same file, there is no need that we import each DC model two times (one for the charge loaded on the thrower and one for the actual ammo depth charge): the same mesh can be linked both to the thrower model and to the DC ammo node. This approach will be very useful since your mod features different thrower and DC marks: using it we can create many combinations by still keeping file size acceptable. Moreover, by keeping the harbor mesh saparate from the DC mesh, we can do harbors to disappear once the DC enters in the water using the visible underwater render controller. I hope I am making myself clear...

I have meant the following:

In Stock a DC Node in the DC_R_KG.dat is structured in the following order:

DCRack
-> DCRack_base_L
-> DCRack_barrel01
-> SHD_DCRack_barrel01
-> DCRack_BarrelFall01
-> SHD_DCRack_BarrelFall01
-> DCRack_BarrelFall
-> SHD_DCRack_BarrelFall
-> crik
-> stopper
-> parghie
-> SHD_DCRack_base_L
-> DC_man
-> DC_man_cask

My question was if you have structured your models that the existing 3D-models are replaced through these and work so or whether the file structure is built up differently.

As long as we store them in the same file, there is no need that we import each DC model two times (one for the charge loaded on the thrower and one for the actual ammo depth charge):

For me that sentence sounds like that isn´t the case, which would be an improvement in keeping the filesize small if models could be used more than once
Quite apart from that I´m always thankful for any help and suggestion in improving the mod an my knowledge of the game so I´m happy that a person with your know how want to help me

[gap]

Originally Posted by padi

In Stock a DC Node in the DC_R_KG.dat is structured in the following order...

Okay, my example was about Y- and K-guns. DC racks are a bit more complicated because they have keyframe animations that possibly we will need to fine tune a bit for our updated models. Before S3d, hex-editing them and checking every little change in game would have been a little nightmare, but now things are much easier. Here are my notes on the stock DC rack structure:

• DCRack_base_L This node contains the rack itself (static)
  • DCRack_barrel01 This node contains the last four DC barrels (with keyframe animations)
    • SHD_DCRack_barrel01
  • DCRack_BarrelFall01 This node contains the first DC barrel, ready for being dropped (with keyframe animations)
    • SHD_DCRack_BarrelFall01
  • DCRack_BarrelFall Same as <DCRack_BarrelFall01>, but a different stage of DC's dropping animation (with keyframe animations, when we se it, we don't see <DCRack_BarrelFall01>)
    • SHD_DCRack_BarrelFall
  • crik This node contains the release lever (with keyframe animations)
  • stopper This node contains the DC stopper (with keyframe animations)
    • parghie This node contains the shaft connecting the release lever with the DC stopper (with keyframe animations)
  • SHD_DCRack_base_L
• DC_man This node contains the sailor manning the DC rack (with mesh animations)
• DC_man_cask This node contains sailor's helmet (with keyframe animations)

nodes whose name starts with "SHD", can be ignored at this stage, as they are used for dynamic shadows that are disabled/buggy in SHIII.

Originally Posted by padi

My question was if you have structured your models that the existing 3D-models are replaced through these and work so or whether the file structure is built up differently.

No, I didn't because so far I have only modelled DC barrels and other ASW ordnance, but I have not looked into racks/throwers (yet). I will look into my books for informations on them. I hope I can get some good drawing of them, that I can use for creating realistic models of them. Please, let me know if you have any valuable information on them (types used, sizes, specs and possibly drawings)

Originally Posted by padi

For me that sentence sounds like that isn´t the case, which would be an improvement in keeping the filesize small if models could be used more than once

Definitely that's something we can and we need to achieve

Originally Posted by padi

Quite apart from that I´m always thankful for any help and suggestion in improving the mod an my knowledge of the game so I´m happy that a person with your know how want to help me

My pleasure padi. As I have said yesterday, I have the most important US and British depth charges basically ready for being imported in game. Let's focus on the throwing/dropping mechanisms now. Once I have modelled one or two of them, we can start importing them into your mod together with the DC barrels, and see how they look/work

EDIT: I have just checked for information the website of the Historic Naval Ships Association and I have found the following documents on US DC tracks and projectors:

http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/destroye...ctor/index.htm (alternative link: https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/d...ctor/index.htm)
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/destroye...tor1/index.htm (alternative link: https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/d...tor1/index.htm)
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/destroye...rack/index.htm (alternative link: https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/depthtrack/index.htm)

The pamphlet on the DC racks is dated September 1952 though. Possibly some racks developped after the end of WWII are listed there, and some early racks considered obsolete but still in use during the war have been omitted

EDIT 2: found on navweaps.com some additional information on DC racks/projectors used by the main nations involved in WWII:

UK
USA
USSR
France
Germany
Italy
Japan

[padi]

Originally Posted by gap

Okay, my example was about Y- and K-guns. DC racks are a bit more complicated because they have keyframe animations that possibly we will need to fine tune a bit for our updated models. Before S3d, hex-editing them and checking every little change in game would have been a little nightmare, but now things are much easier. Here are my notes on the stock DC rack structure:

• DCRack_base_L This node contains the rack itself (static)
  • DCRack_barrel01 This node contains the last four DC barrels (with keyframe animations)
    • SHD_DCRack_barrel01
  • DCRack_BarrelFall01 This node contains the first DC barrel, ready for being dropped (with keyframe animations)
    • SHD_DCRack_BarrelFall01
  • DCRack_BarrelFall Same as <DCRack_BarrelFall01>, but a different stage of DC's dropping animation (with keyframe animations, when we se it, we don't see <DCRack_BarrelFall01>)
    • SHD_DCRack_BarrelFall
  • crik This node contains the release lever (with keyframe animations)
  • stopper This node contains the DC stopper (with keyframe animations)
    • parghie This node contains the shaft connecting the release lever with the DC stopper (with keyframe animations)
  • SHD_DCRack_base_L
• DC_man This node contains the sailor manning the DC rack (with mesh animations)
• DC_man_cask This node contains sailor's helmet (with keyframe animations)

nodes whose name starts with "SHD", can be ignored at this stage, as they are used for dynamic shadows that are disabled/buggy in SHIII.



No, I didn't because so far I have only modelled DC barrels and other ASW ordnance, but I have not looked into racks/throwers (yet). I will look into my books for informations on them. I hope I can get some good drawing of them, that I can use for creating realistic models of them. Please, let me know if you have any valuable information on them (types used, sizes, specs and possibly drawings)



Definitely that's something we can and we need to achieve



My pleasure padi. As I have said yesterday, I have the most important US and British depth charges basically ready for being imported in game. Let's focus on the throwing/dropping mechanisms now. Once I have modelled one or two of them, we can start importing them into your mod together with the DC barrels, and see how they look/work

Sounds fantastic!

I have only found this link for drawings about Racks in the past, but I´m searching for more: http://ship-model-today.de/sd072.htm

Thanks again!

P.S.: I don´t know, if that is useful, but I have found these drawings/pictures of Racks and K-Guns:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.php
http://www.ship-model-today.de/auk-009.jpg
https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapons/racks/racks.html
https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapo.../dpthchrg.html
https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapons/k-gun/k-gun.html

[gap]

Originally Posted by padi

Sounds fantastic!

I have only found this link for drawings about Racks in the past, but I´m searching for more: http://ship-model-today.de/sd072.htm

Thanks again!

P.S.: I don´t know, if that is useful, but I have found these drawings/pictures of Racks and K-Guns:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.php
http://www.ship-model-today.de/auk-009.jpg
https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapons/racks/racks.html
https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapo.../dpthchrg.html
https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapons/k-gun/k-gun.html

Good pictures are alway good but, for modelling, technical drawings are even better

[Niume]

Glad to see some action in this thread. Though i barely understand whats going on but I must say keep going!

[Snow Rose]

Love it. Always was a big complaint that They use unrealistic ASW in the game.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Snow Rose

Love it. Always was a big complaint that They use unrealistic ASW in the game.

What is worse in my opinion, is the ludicrusly small number of weapons and ammo types featured in stock game. With such a limited stock of weapons available, is difficult simulating in a realistical way the evolution of ASW warfare throughout the war. I think this is the main pro of padi's mod

I suppose this doesn't work with GWX3?

[padi]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

I suppose this doesn't work with GWX3?

No, because of a big bug in GWX I can't create a working mod for it.
The ships would only carry the early Mark VII/Mark 6 DCs and not the advanced ones.

@all:

After playing WAC for some hours I'm really impressed by the mod and I'm working on a version for it.

[gap]

Originally Posted by padi

No, because of a big bug in GWX I can't create a working mod for it.
The ships would only carry the early Mark VII/Mark 6 DCs and not the advanced ones.

What bug?

Originally Posted by padi

After playing WAC for some hours I'm really impressed by the mod and I'm working on a version for it.

Maybe I am overseeing something obvious, but to the the best of my understanding there is not reason for this mod being compatible/uncompatible with one particular mod configuration. Only damage levels (hit points) might need some finetunigs from one supermod to the other, due to different U-boat (and ASW escorts) damage settings

[padi]

Originally Posted by gap

What bug?







Maybe I am overseeing something obvious, but to the the best of my understanding there is not reason for this mod being compatible/uncompatible with one particular mod configuration. Only damage levels (hit points) might need some finetunigs from one supermod to the other, due to different U-boat (and ASW escorts) damage settings

The bug is that due to an error in the mission editor the ships are driving with 1939 equipment for the whole war...

The mod isn't compatible with other mods because I had to change the .eqp-file of any included ship, so the new DCs really work.