Hunting subs in '68

Shadow · 06-29-17, 07:36 PM

Yes, engagements are definitely far more protracted in the 1968 campaign.

Had an encounter with a couple of ASW surface vessels, a Kashin DDG and a Riga FF. After some extensive maneuvering, I managed to chase off the Riga and go after the meatier Kashin, which took two MK 37s to sink. Quite laborious, overall.

Then I had a handful of sub-to-sub encounters, mostly against diesels. I was reluctant to use my speed advantage so much, due to sonar blindness, but I did go active a number of times. Didn't detect anything, but it was enough to get the attention of the lurking Soviets, whose torpedoes I could use to get a hint about their general location. Bastards were sneaky enough I couldn't detect them until they were under 1,000 yards away. The fish were usually easily evaded, except for the time I lost the Snook to a single torpedo hit due to overconfidence. I knew the warhead was coming but I was obsessed with another sub. I overestimated my last-minute maneuvering capability, the torp was detected too late and my depth commands didn't get my boat out of the way fast enough.

But I was shallow enough, I escaped with my crew and command gave me the USS Scamp. My last engagement pitted me against another pair of diesels, a Whiskey and a Romeo. Similar situation as before: Whiskey went down fairly easily, but the fun part was the Romeo. She managed to fire off two torpedoes at me: the second one was persistent, and as I was sprinting away from it at flank speed, I miraculously missed ramming the submarine, which seconds later got slammed head-on by its own warhead. It was amazing.

Got another sub-hunting mission afterwards, and I only have 3 Mk 37s left. I really need to revise my loadout as I have far too many Mk 16s I seldom ever use: they're worthless against subs, and warships are too erratic to be hit by them 95% of the time.

But at any rate, if I'm careful those three 37s should be enough. And if I'm daring enough, I could even wrangle a Soviet torp or two and politely return them to their owners.

Ansgar Burkhard · 06-30-17, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

Yes, engagements are definitely far more protracted in the 1968 campaign.

Had an encounter with a couple of ASW surface vessels, a Kashin DDG and a Riga FF. After some extensive maneuvering, I managed to chase off the Riga and go after the meatier Kashin, which took two MK 37s to sink. Quite laborious, overall.

Then I had a handful of sub-to-sub encounters, mostly against diesels. I was reluctant to use my speed advantage so much, due to sonar blindness, but I did go active a number of times. Didn't detect anything, but it was enough to get the attention of the lurking Soviets, whose torpedoes I could use to get a hint about their general location. Bastards were sneaky enough I couldn't detect them until they were under 1,000 yards away. The fish were usually easily evaded, except for the time I lost the Snook to a single torpedo hit due to overconfidence. I knew the warhead was coming but I was obsessed with another sub. I overestimated my last-minute maneuvering capability, the torp was detected too late and my depth commands didn't get my boat out of the way fast enough.

But I was shallow enough, I escaped with my crew and command gave me the USS Scamp. My last engagement pitted me against another pair of diesels, a Whiskey and a Romeo. Similar situation as before: Whiskey went down fairly easily, but the fun part was the Romeo. She managed to fire off two torpedoes at me: the second one was persistent, and as I was sprinting away from it at flank speed, I miraculously missed ramming the submarine, which seconds later got slammed head-on by its own warhead. It was amazing.

Got another sub-hunting mission afterwards, and I only have 3 Mk 37s left. I really need to revise my loadout as I have far too many Mk 16s I seldom ever use: they're worthless against subs, and warships are too erratic to be hit by them 95% of the time.

But at any rate, if I'm careful those three 37s should be enough. And if I'm daring enough, I could even wrangle a Soviet torp or two and politely return them to their owners.

Mk16 are not useless. I fire spreads of 3 or 4 to good results. I have a lot more luck with them than with the Mk37 against surface ships since once they go 30+ kts it is nigh impossible for the 37 to hit.

Julhelm · 06-30-17, 04:08 AM

The shorter distance scale might actually make the 68 campaign more entertaining. With much of the emphasis being getting into the opponent's baffles, it plays out much like slow air combat underwater.

Bringing everything closer into the camera certainly makes the combat more visually appealing and more cinematic like Hunt For Red October or so.

The interesting thing about compressing the distances is that the tactics don't really change, since sensor performance gets adjusted accordingly - in practice it works out like time compression.

Shadow · 06-30-17, 09:43 PM

So on my next mission I did in fact practice my torpedo wrangling.

It was just one November, which I managed to detect fairly early. After some careful initial maneuvering into her baffles, I accelerated to standard speed to close the distance but lost the contact in the process. Not sure if that happened due to my speed or the SSN stopping cold, though that might explain how the Soviet saw me coming and fired a total of three torpedoes at me.

But I was too close by then, and shortly after picking up to flank I zigged, then zagged, and then swooped under the enemy sub as her torpedoes went nuts in the area. It really didn't take long at all for one of them to lock onto its owner and promptly punch her lights out. I was fast and maneuvering aggressively, while the November could barely react to the chaos around her.

The second torpedo soon found the now-sinking Soviet again, as I was already drifting away. The third warhead circled around the vicinity for a good long while, but never found me.

So overall, this is cool, this is great, but with a fast sub and some practice, I fear it might turn exploitable. The AI doesn't seem to react all that well to its own torpedoes locking on to it (though that may be part of the general AI issues), and at least in the '68 campaign, my first impression after these last couple of missions is that it may well be a better idea to perfect torpedo wrangling than bother with Mk 37s in sub-to-sub engagements.

caine007 · 07-05-17, 04:59 AM

The Skipjack can at least catch just about anything in the water. I found the Sturgeon is a nightmare in '68. Definitely a lesson in patience.

I can see it might be better at surface attacks being so quiet for the era but it's so hard to get close enough for a decent Mk 37 shot on anything but the oldest diesel subs.

Really makes me wish you got partial credit for missions because while you might be able to ambush one target, once you lose the element of surprise you might as well head home.

06-29-17, 07:36 PM	#1
Shadow Torpedoman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 112 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 2	Yes, engagements are definitely far more protracted in the 1968 campaign. Had an encounter with a couple of ASW surface vessels, a Kashin DDG and a Riga FF. After some extensive maneuvering, I managed to chase off the Riga and go after the meatier Kashin, which took two MK 37s to sink. Quite laborious, overall. Then I had a handful of sub-to-sub encounters, mostly against diesels. I was reluctant to use my speed advantage so much, due to sonar blindness, but I did go active a number of times. Didn't detect anything, but it was enough to get the attention of the lurking Soviets, whose torpedoes I could use to get a hint about their general location. Bastards were sneaky enough I couldn't detect them until they were under 1,000 yards away. The fish were usually easily evaded, except for the time I lost the Snook to a single torpedo hit due to overconfidence. I knew the warhead was coming but I was obsessed with another sub. I overestimated my last-minute maneuvering capability, the torp was detected too late and my depth commands didn't get my boat out of the way fast enough. But I was shallow enough, I escaped with my crew and command gave me the USS Scamp. My last engagement pitted me against another pair of diesels, a Whiskey and a Romeo. Similar situation as before: Whiskey went down fairly easily, but the fun part was the Romeo. She managed to fire off two torpedoes at me: the second one was persistent, and as I was sprinting away from it at flank speed, I miraculously missed ramming the submarine, which seconds later got slammed head-on by its own warhead. It was amazing. Got another sub-hunting mission afterwards, and I only have 3 Mk 37s left. I really need to revise my loadout as I have far too many Mk 16s I seldom ever use: they're worthless against subs, and warships are too erratic to be hit by them 95% of the time. But at any rate, if I'm careful those three 37s should be enough. And if I'm daring enough, I could even wrangle a Soviet torp or two and politely return them to their owners. __________________ Shadow's Cold Waters mods (JSGME-friendly) = Longer Campaigns: Marathon Edition = 500-yard MAD range

06-30-17, 09:43 PM	#4
Shadow Torpedoman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 112 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 2	So on my next mission I did in fact practice my torpedo wrangling. It was just one November, which I managed to detect fairly early. After some careful initial maneuvering into her baffles, I accelerated to standard speed to close the distance but lost the contact in the process. Not sure if that happened due to my speed or the SSN stopping cold, though that might explain how the Soviet saw me coming and fired a total of three torpedoes at me. But I was too close by then, and shortly after picking up to flank I zigged, then zagged, and then swooped under the enemy sub as her torpedoes went nuts in the area. It really didn't take long at all for one of them to lock onto its owner and promptly punch her lights out. I was fast and maneuvering aggressively, while the November could barely react to the chaos around her. The second torpedo soon found the now-sinking Soviet again, as I was already drifting away. The third warhead circled around the vicinity for a good long while, but never found me. So overall, this is cool, this is great, but with a fast sub and some practice, I fear it might turn exploitable. The AI doesn't seem to react all that well to its own torpedoes locking on to it (though that may be part of the general AI issues), and at least in the '68 campaign, my first impression after these last couple of missions is that it may well be a better idea to perfect torpedo wrangling than bother with Mk 37s in sub-to-sub engagements. __________________ Shadow's Cold Waters mods (JSGME-friendly) = Longer Campaigns: Marathon Edition = 500-yard MAD range

06-30-17, 04:08 AM	#3
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 693 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	The shorter distance scale might actually make the 68 campaign more entertaining. With much of the emphasis being getting into the opponent's baffles, it plays out much like slow air combat underwater. Bringing everything closer into the camera certainly makes the combat more visually appealing and more cinematic like Hunt For Red October or so. The interesting thing about compressing the distances is that the tactics don't really change, since sensor performance gets adjusted accordingly - in practice it works out like time compression.

07-05-17, 04:59 AM	#5
caine007 A-ganger Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 72 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	The Skipjack can at least catch just about anything in the water. I found the Sturgeon is a nightmare in '68. Definitely a lesson in patience. I can see it might be better at surface attacks being so quiet for the era but it's so hard to get close enough for a decent Mk 37 shot on anything but the oldest diesel subs. Really makes me wish you got partial credit for missions because while you might be able to ambush one target, once you lose the element of surprise you might as well head home.