Err Victor III using stand off airborne torpedos?

[ollie1983]

Just had a knife fight with a Russian Victor, in 600ft of water strong layer at 300ft. He goes active and fires some kind of sea lance lookalike at me and is firing them from depth?? Is this a real weapon and is this realistic??

[Shadow]

SS-N-16 Stallion. Yeah, a sort of torpedo-carrying missile like the Sea Lance.

[Wiz33]

Originally Posted by Shadow

SS-N-16 Stallion. Yeah, a sort of torpedo-carrying missile like the Sea Lance.

I think his question it if they can be launch at 600ft depth.

My answer is that it might, THe reason that Harpoon and TASM/TLAM can only be launched above 200ft is that they are basically surface fire version encapsulate in a container and container can only withstand 200ft of pressure. The Sea Lance and the SS-N-15/16 are design to be used by sub so maybe they can be launched just like a torp at pretty much any depth.

[ollie1983]

Ye gods, the Russians have outsmarted us again.

Throw in a 1992 and 1996 time line and we will have the dreaded VA-111 to deal with next.

[Shadow]

Haven't been able to find anything about the Stallion's launch depth. Could be classified.

As for the VA-111 (Shkval), I wonder about its actual performance. Which is of course top secret. But supercavitation is a fickle thing, and I don't see it being all that maneuverable at 200+ knots. If you can see it coming (and I doubt it's anywhere near quiet) it shouldn't be too hard to get out of the way unless you're very close to the launch point. Modern warships can turn really fast.

Fearsome? Sure. Wunderwaffe? Doubt it.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Shadow

Haven't been able to find anything about the Stallion's launch depth. Could be classified.

As for the VA-111 (Shkval), I wonder about its actual performance. Which is of course top secret. But supercavitation is a fickle thing, and I don't see it being all that maneuverable at 200+ knots. If you can see it coming (and I doubt it's anywhere near quiet) it shouldn't be too hard to get out of the way unless you're very close to the launch point. Modern warships can turn really fast.

Fearsome? Sure. Wunderwaffe? Doubt it.

Not to compare the game to Dangerous Waters, but in Dangerous Waters, if the Shkval is shot well, it is nearly impossible to dodge in its entirety - it will always give some damage on a good shot. However, I'm not sure how effective these weapons are with conventional munitions (damage radius isn't very large for conventional explosives) and they seem to be designed with nuclear weapons in mind. However, according to wikipedia, it seems like they're intended as anti-torpedo torpedoes.

[Steiger]

Originally Posted by Shadow

I don't see it being all that maneuverable at 200+ knots.

Yeah if you've ever seen a video of a rocket launch get off course and disintegrate with the aerodynamic forces, imagine what the hydrodynamic forces must be like at 200 knots. I imagine the supercavity would collapse.

Hard to dodge at long range, but erratic movements at close range would likely do the trick.

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Not to compare the game to Dangerous Waters, but in Dangerous Waters, if the Shkval is shot well, it is nearly impossible to dodge in its entirety - it will always give some damage on a good shot. However, I'm not sure how effective these weapons are with conventional munitions (damage radius isn't very large for conventional explosives) and they seem to be designed with nuclear weapons in mind. However, according to wikipedia, it seems like they're intended as anti-torpedo torpedoes.

Dangerous Waters had to speculate about the weapon's performance, and so will Cold Waters if necessary. A non-nuclear Shkval would need direct hits to inflict substantial damage, just like any torpedo. And as we know, it's very difficult to damage armoured targets with conventional area of effect weapons (probably more so if they explode underwater), and I doubt a Shkval would pack a FOAB-type warhead.

Overall, I think we can expect a very fast torpedo with a very wide turning radius, making it accurate at long range but increasingly avoidable as it gets close to an alerted target.

[Cpt.JoshuaGoldwater]

This is critical knowledge, thanks guys. I mean Captain's.

[ollie1983]

I was a bit alarmed at the fact they can apparently launch them at any depth.

In RSR I believe you could launch anything at 300ft, in Cold waters it is reduced. Fair enough.

The Shkval is all well and good, but at that speed, I can't see it would be able to hear or detect anything, and you can surely just dodge the thing at any distance?

I can understand the thinking- fire a nuclear equipped version in the general direction of a carrier group and watch the stampede.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by ollie1983

The Shkval is all well and good, but at that speed, I can't see it would be able to hear or detect anything, and you can surely just dodge the thing at any distance?

The torpedo has a magnetic proximity thingy-ma-do-bob

It can be hard to dodge, it gets to you pretty quick and submarines don't turn or accelerate on a dime. But yes, a conventional warhead would have to be pretty close (less than a boat length) to do even minor damage.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Shadow

Haven't been able to find anything about the Stallion's launch depth. Could be classified.

As for the VA-111 (Shkval), I wonder about its actual performance. Which is of course top secret. But supercavitation is a fickle thing, and I don't see it being all that maneuverable at 200+ knots. If you can see it coming (and I doubt it's anywhere near quiet) it shouldn't be too hard to get out of the way unless you're very close to the launch point. Modern warships can turn really fast.

Fearsome? Sure. Wunderwaffe? Doubt it.

It is a straight runner torpedo (well supercavitating underwater missile) with a nuclear charge and magnetic proxy fuse.

It is a situational weapon, for killing a SSBN that you shadow before it finishes the SLBM salvo.

[PL_Harpoon]

Well, according to Russian wiki, the Shkval has no homing, has a max range of 13km and can not function below 30 meters (about 100 feet).

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

Well, according to Russian wiki, the Shkval has no homing, has a max range of 13km and can not function below 30 meters (about 100 feet).

Russian wiki doesnt not reference their figure but most likely got it from the KTRV website:
http://www.ktrv.ru/production/68/693/695/
which is referencing anti-ship variant of Shkval.

However as there is no alternative official open source for the Shkval's depth it is a defensible hypothesis.

[Shadow]

From Wikipedia:

Early designs may have relied solely on an inertial guidance system. The initial design was intended for nuclear warhead delivery. Later designs reportedly include terminal guidance and conventional warheads.

Rudimentary guidance is not a problem for a nuclear strike, but you need a lot more precision for a conventional warhead. I wonder what kind of terminal guidance would work in this case, considering the Shkval is blinding itself to some extent with its supercavitation's bubble. Not to mention the nose of the torpedo's taken up by the supercavitator.