Why Trump - the white riot

[Onkel Neal]

How about shockingly hypocritical?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

How about shockingly hypocritical?

Well...I could meet in the middle with that.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this American-Presidential-election-history

Found this on FB.

"The president was considered to rough and crude to be a competent leader. Democrats incited riots in the cities, States run my Democrats threatened to secede even before he took office. 1860"

Sound interesting, does anyone of you have more about this historical event ?

Markus

I remember reading about it in grade school back in the 1960's before history was crowded out by gender studies.

As I recall:
It got a lot worse before it got better.
It took a very long time to get better in Democrat controlled states, mainly their own fault.
Although nobody knew it at the time the status of minorities improved as a result of it.
And the President involved had weird hair. That was key...

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by August

And the President involved had weird hair. That was key...

And the vampire slaying...don't forget the vampires.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Well...I could meet in the middle with that.

I did see some video on the evening news of some "white power" students in some school, Pennsylvania I think, so there is some of that going on. Whether that exceeds the "black lives matter" mark, is debatable, but I don't think much of it. Bad taste. And why is the school so helpless to keep their students in check? Oh yeah, don't answer that, I know. Our society keeps moving away from the norms of decency. And Trump's mouth is not helping.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mapuc

States run my Democrats threatened to secede even before he took office. 1860"

Actually it was worse than that. Those same states threatened to secede in 1856 if John C. Fremont was elected. They threatened to secede in 1860 if Lincoln was elected. After he won, they did secede before he took office.

[agathosdaimon]

it is curious how much despicable things people think seem okay for trump to have said, but the one utterance of "deplorable" by clinton has sent them into paroxysms of rage.

Trump will be a despot, i actually feel pretty sure about this now given who he is surrounding himself with.

the real one to watch for will be Steve Bannon - i suppose he is like Goebbels or something, he is as much an anti-semite as he is homophobic, as he anti-immigrant. He is probably the most extreme person you could take on and if he gets hold of the USA's surveillance network, well that will be really horrific

as for people reporting on social media of what they are experiencing - at what point does it override your cognitive dissonance, how much has to happen before you begin to suspect something has gone pretty wrong.

The sky is not going to fall in right now, but it wont take long. Trump himself i think could be no better no worse then others like say GW Bush, but it depends now on who controls the functions of government and who feeds him information and now it will be people who will keep him in a bubble and willfully lie and distory truth. It sounds outrageous but i see nothing to stop a little futher along, Bannon and whatever other criminals he brings with him, start to fabricate stories to fire up rage at blacks, jews, minorities, intellectuals, secular minded people - take your pick. The pieces are all falling into to place if you care to watch the news, read up on people like Steve Bannon and see what the Trump loyalists are announcing.

We know, the whole world knows how thin skinned and vindictive Trump is, he doesnt hide this fact, he cant stand being made fun of or criticised by anyone no matter how big or small that persons platform is. Compare this with Obama who has had 8 years of people hating on him, parodying him, making MEMEs out of him. people putting out conspiracy theory films about him, etc etc etc and he has been a big enough person to not go after people for making fun of him. But Trump, well as mentioned he is like an Erdogan or the late Monarch of Thailand - there will be no criticism of him tolerated. Hopefully this is only restricted to the USA and he doesnt extend his pettiness to the whole world.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

And Trump's mouth is not helping.

Yes - his mouth. Whwther his mind ticks the same way, whether he really is that dumb a Trump as he posed as - to me that is something very different. Why did he got this far in the race because he was unerestimated all the time.

Me, I think not one moment that he is the stupid idiot many people paint him as. Opportunistic, unscrupulous, provoking, egocentric, and talking to the plebs in the language that the plebs understands (Clinton sucks at that) - all this: yes. But stupid?

He is not stupid. At best the people voting for him are stupid: those who took his talking for real. That is like taking all miracles and wonders in the Bible literally.

This does not mean that one should not be prepared for him adding quite a lot of changes. Since he is no career politician and is not anchored in the party system as well, he will do things from a very different and thus: unused perspective, last but not least that perspective will have HIM at the centre of its gravity. Possible that we will need time to get used to that, and that we will not like the consequencesespecailly in Europe, when he starts to cost us more money and own engagement.

But again: I really doubt that Trump is stupid.

By this I wish not to say that I suddenly like him. I don't. Its just that I take reality as what it is, and not as an idea about how I would prefer it to be, if only... The reality from January 20th on, is him. And nobody else.

And from late summer on we can start to assess what he actually is deciding and doing for real.

[agathosdaimon]

i saw this and i actually feel a little relieve and hope truly hope that he is kept in check and does right by all americans. Ultimately if Trump is going to be the US President then i want him to do well and by "do well" i mean do right by all americans regardless of who they voted for

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nge-of-pledges


This is why although for me Trump is not a likeable person and quite appallingly his boasting of assaulting women and advocating war crimes and wanting to suddenly give up on doing anything about switching to cleaner energy, i dont think he wants to be a despot, but he will need to show some humility and empathy and above all not let the more extreme elements like Bannon, Palin, Guiliani etc pour poison in his ear.

Though as you say, Trump is not stupid, he is though also sly and flip flops alot on his position so will his softened stances be hardened up again once he is inaugurated? time will tell. If he is going to really buck the establishment, he better not let the more insidious parties out there who have been emboldened by his rhetoric get any further.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Skybird

He is not stupid. At best the people voting for him are stupid: those who took his talking for real. That is like taking all miracles and wonders in the Bible literally.

That is an offensive statement. I know a lot of people who support Trump, they are not stupid.

It does not mean we don't see his flaws, but Trump was not running against the perfect candidate, he was running against Clinton who only wanted to BE President, Trump actually wants to DO something.

Bottom line, you don't want a nice, decent person like Jimmy Carter as POTUS, you want a tough SOB like Reagan, Nixon or Trump who puts America's interests first.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

That is an offensive statement. I know a lot of people who support Trump, they are not stupid.

No, it is not offensive a statement I made.

It would have been if I just would have said "At best the people voting for him are stupid", and would have left it to that.

But actually I said: " At best the people voting for him are stupid: those who took his talking for real. That is like taking all miracles and wonders in the Bible literally." That specifies a certain subgroup of Trump voters: but these I indeed think are stupid indeed, for the mentioned reason.

Not all Trump voters are stupid - but a certain subgroup certainly is. That much that one should forbid them to vote.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

When white people attempt to use their political will to pull their country out of the trash heap, it's called racism. Notice liberals don't spend much time calling black people racist when they turn out in record numbers to elect the first "black" president? Or when Middle Eastern inhabitants denigrate Western culture? Or when Hispanics demand the US pull down its borders and dismantle its immigration laws in order to allow more Hispanics to enter? You think the Hispanics would be so motivated to allow millions of Frenchmen to enter the US? Never hear them make a peep about this.

Indeed. Often times those who are most opposed to racism fall into the trap of racism themselves.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Our society keeps moving away from the norms of decency. And Trump's mouth is not helping.

Alas, that is true. I too have a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to some of the facebook/twitter posts, but by rule of averages at least some of them are true. When I made the comparisons earlier between the US and UK after Brexit, I was speaking more of humanity in general and certain sections of it. If the AfD win the elections in Germany you'd see a similar thing, likewise if the Front Nationale win in France. It's like a validation for people of certain distasteful viewpoints, and they then feel free to express those viewpoints against people. It's not a judge of American character, it's something that's universal in most, if not all, cultures. It's also not everywhere, so if you're lucky you'll never witness it at all. I've yet to see it first hand, I have an Irish friend who got a bit of abuse post-Brexit, but by law of averages you know it's out there. Fortunately, as you've also said, there are people who will stand up against it, and eventually it will die down, but it's up to people in positions of authority and power to show the decent behaviour and tolerance that they want others to have. It doesn't always work, but you have to try.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Indeed. Often times those who are most opposed to racism fall into the trap of racism themselves.

Extremism does breed extremism, sadly. Even I've fallen into that trap occasionally, it's easy to do but you have to try and break out of it.

[Onkel Neal]

Dilbert creator Scott Adams analyzes the election and the massive levels of persuasion tactics employed by Trump. His success was no accident.