Libyan ace Al-Obedi killed in Benghazi

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Sad loss, but I do have one complaint against the reporting, and that is the use of the word "ace". There is only one circumstance for that term to be used for a pilot, and that is when he has shot down five or more of his enemies. This is not meant to slight Major Al-Obedi, who by all reports was a great pilot, but did he fulfill the requirement for that term?

It's like when reporters call a destroyer a "battleship". It happens a lot, but it doesn't make it so.

Good point, fair point too. Do ground targets count towards attaining ace status though? And, whilst I was doing a quick bit of research into the definition of an ace, wikipedia made a fair point, how many more Aces will there been in future wars? Since fighter vs fighter combat is becoming less frequent in modern warfare and unmanned aircraft are becoming more common, we could be looking at the end of the era of Aces.

[Jimbuna]

Blue Skies

[Commander Wallace]

From the images, it appears to be a MiG-23 as you mentioned. Wilkipedia suggests the MiG-23 was a fighter / interceptor/ and attack bomber or strike aircraft.

" quote "


Operational history

Western sources, generally attribute a very limited number of confirmed air-to-air victories to the MiG-23 while reporting a higher number of MiG-23s downed mostly by Israeli Air Force in 1982, while Russian sources generally decrease the number of losses and increase the number of inflicted kills bringing the air-to-air kill to loss ratio to around parity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23


Wilkipedia also suggests that a pilot with 5 or more " kills " is sufficient for attaining the status of " ace "


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_ace


This is not meant to be a denigration of his flying abilities.



A better example of an ace might have been German pilot Erich Hartmann who is the top ace of all time with 352 kills.

The Soviet Air Forces has the first Allied pilots in terms of aerial victories, Ivan Kozhedub credited with 66 victories and Alexander Pokryshkin scored 65 victories. It also claimed the only female aces of the war: Lydia Litvyak scored 12 victories and Yekaterina Budanova achieved 11 Fighting on different sides, the French pilot Pierre Le Gloan had the unusual distinction of shooting down four German, seven Italian and seven British aircraft, the latter while he was flying for Vichy France in Syria.


American Pilot Col. Robin Olds is yet another example. (July 14, 1922 – June 14, 2007) was an American fighter pilot and general officer in the U.S. Air Force. He was a "triple ace", with a combined total of 16 victories in World War II and the Vietnam War He retired in 1973 as a brigadier general.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Olds


There are many more examples of pilots who have attained " Ace " status

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

From the images, it appears to be a MiG-23 as you mentioned. Wilkipedia suggests the MiG-23 was a fighter / interceptor/ and attack bomber or strike aircraft.

Could also be a 27 which is the ground attack version of the 23.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Could also be a 27 which is the ground attack version of the 23.

Because the MiG 23 and 27 share the same basic airframe and as you said, the MiG 27 is the ground attack version of the MiG 23, you are right, except the MiG 27 has a " Platapus nose " the MiG 23 nose is more stream lined. The picture Oberon posted looks like it has a stream lined nose but it's hard to tell since the aircraft nose profile is not visible in it's entirety.

[Dowly]

AFAIK, ground kills were not counted, unless you were someone like Rudel (who, IIRC, was called an ace in terms of ground kills, but not an actual 'ace')

As such, he is no 'ace', but sorry to hear of his loss nevertheless.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Dowly

AFAIK, ground kills were not counted, unless you were someone like Rudel (who, IIRC, was called an ace in terms of ground kills, but not an actual 'ace')

As such, he is no 'ace', but sorry to hear of his loss nevertheless.

I think Rudel got 7 air kills too so was also a proper Ace.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Because the MiG 23 and 27 share the same basic airframe and as you said, the MiG 27 is the ground attack version of the MiG 23, you are right, except the MiG 27 has a " Platapus nose " the MiG 23 nose is more stream lined. The picture Oberon posted looks like it has a stream lined nose but it's hard to tell since the aircraft nose profile is not visible in it's entirety.

The aircraft in the picture must be a MiG-23 because it has the variable intake ramps that were removed from the MiG-27.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The aircraft in the picture must be a MiG-23 because it has the variable intake ramps that were removed from the MiG-27.

I thought as much. I figured someone knowledgeable about aircraft like you, Schroeder or others in the forum would figure it out and correctly Identify the aircraft. I didn't know about the variable intake ramps missing on the MiG 27 though. I know they are there for aiding in compression at supersonic speeds.

I'm guessing they were not needed on a dedicated attack aircraft like the MiG 27 flying subsonic attack missions ?