Who Started World War II?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

But... but... I...?

Yes dear ally from a centruy ago ??

Originally Posted by Betonov

Yes dear ally from a centruy ago ??

It can't be that easy! ... can it?`

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

It can't be that easy! ... can it?`

It's not.
If you go further back.
No nazis without German defeat in WW1, no WW1 without colonial tensions, no colonial tensions without a unified Germany....
Considering how history can be connected we can blame WW2 on Fred Flintstone

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

The Nazis.

Nazis invaded Poland September 1st and set in motion the alliance system that brought Britain and France into the conflict.
Yes, Britain did declare war on Germany and not vice versa, but after Germany invaded an ally and refused to back out after repeated attempt by London to defuse the situation.

Well, technically it was Imperial Japan, but at that point it wasn't a world war...in fact, you probably couldn't call it a world war until 1941, but the first shots of World War II were most likely during Japans conquests of China.

Actually, I guess if you really wanted to go there you could say that the first shots of World War II were fired in Sarajevo in 1914...

So it was all Serbias fault!

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by STEED

... I wonder if David Irving has read Commandant of Auschwitz by Rudolf Hoess.

I know this man and his book, and I could say you a lot of things about them. But this is not our subject for now.

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by STEED

David Irving is a Hitler supporter and said many times the Holocaust was the work of others and Hitler played no part. This is a very sensitive area, David Irving went as far as questioning the gas chambers at Auschwitz. Yes I have read a couple of his books and I wonder if David Irving has read Commandant of Auschwitz by Rudolf Hoess.

I too have read some of Irvings stuff, and I find it interesting, to say the least. And he has quite a bit on the start of WWII (like, who fired the first shot?). The thing is, all his detractors do is call him names and fire off stink bombs at his private presentations. To date, as far as I know, no one will publically debate him. I find that little factoid even MORE interesting.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by MLF

[...]
March 31, 1939
France and Great Britain guarantee the integrity of the borders of the Polish state.

[...]

August 23, 1939
Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union sign a nonaggression agreement and a secret codicil dividing eastern Europe into spheres of influence.

[edit: how about "dividing Poland"]

September 1, 1939
Germany invades Poland, initiating World War II in Europe.

And on September 17th, 1939, 16 days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east.
The invasion and battle lasted for the following 20 days and ended on October 6th, 1939 with the two-way division and annexation of the entire territory of the Second Polish Republic by both Germany and the Soviet Union.

Then, England declared war to Germany. Because England did not "guarantee Poland's borders".
It only guaranteed Poland help in case of Germany violating Poland's borders.

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by Betonov

The Nazis.

Nazis invaded Poland September 1st and set in motion the alliance system that brought Britain and France into the conflict.
Yes, Britain did declare war on Germany and not vice versa, but after Germany invaded an ally and refused to back out after repeated attempt by London to defuse the situation.

Yes, but WHY did Germany invade Poland? That is the bone of contention, which should be in my opinion, the focus of this entire thread.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Joefour

Yes, but WHY did Germany invade Poland? That is the bone of contention, which should be in my opinion, the focus of this entire thread.

Lebensraum.
First to retake Ostpreusen they lost to Poland after WW1 and then expand to Russia to make room for the colonies were Germans will till fields and breed a master rase. At the expense of the slavs living there.

Hitler didn't want to go to war with France and England. He hoped the west would see him as a guardian against the USSR but miscalculated.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Joefour

To date, as far as I know, no one will publically debate him.

That is because as a historian he has no credibility left.

I would recommend to read through the transcripts from the Irving v. Lipstadt case: http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/

[Fahnenbohn]

I dont agree at all.

Originally Posted by Betonov

No nazis without German defeat in WW1.

No nazis without Treaty of Versailles.

Originally Posted by Betonov

No WW1 without colonial tensions

No WW1 without ... wait for my presentation !

Originally Posted by Betonov

No colonial tensions without a unified Germany.

As Hitler said : " If forty-six million Englishmen claim the right to rule over forty million square kilometers of the earth, it cannot be wrong for eighty-two million Germans to demand the right to live on 800,000 square kilometers ".

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by Catfish

And on September 17th, 1939, 16 days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east.
The invasion and battle lasted for the following 20 days and ended on October 6th, 1939 with the two-way division and annexation of the entire territory of the Second Polish Republic by both Germany and the Soviet Union.

Then, England declared war to Germany. Because England did not "guarantee Poland's borders".
It only guaranteed Poland help in case of Germany violating Poland's borders.

So why didn't Britain declare war ALSO on the Soviet Union for invading Poland from the east? Instead, she allied herself with the russians. Makes no logical sense to me whatsoever, that is, unless something else was going on that we don't know about. Perhaps this should be explored too.

[STEED]

Who started WW2?

As in person or persons and are we taking into account cause and effect from past History? How far back do you go to find the very first domino that knocked down the rest? Or is this just a general question without going back and just focus on 1939.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Joefour

So why didn't Britain declare war ALSO on the Soviet Union for invading Poland from the east? Instead, she allied herself with the russians. Makes no logical sense to me whatsoever, that is, unless something else was going on that we don't know about. Perhaps this should be explored too.

Hitler launched his invasion first, there was debate on the possibility of declaring war on Russia, around about the time that Russia and Finland went to war I believe, but it was decided that to fight both Russia and Germany would be suicidal.
Then when Hitler declared war on Russia it was simply a case of 'My enemies enemy is my friend', Britain had no real love for the Soviet Union, heck we drew up plans to declare war on them after WWII had finished but they were thrown out as being suicidal, but Russia had the resources to defeat Germany, Britain did not, and so by supporting Russia and keeping Russia in the war, it both tied up the bulk of German forces on the other side of Europe from Britain, thus stopping Hitler from thinking about reinventing Sealion, and it gave a better chance of Germany being defeated, or at the very least keeping the war going long enough for the UK to persuade the USA to get fully involved.

[Bilge_Rat]

yes, saying the Nazis are responsible for WW2 is a bit like saying that the Americans were responsible for the American Revolution because they started the fighting.

The root causes of WW2 can easily be traced back to the Treaty of Versailles which was imposed by Britain and France on Germany, carving up German territory and imposing punitive reparation payments.

This had the twin effect of weakening the Weimar republic/German democracy from the start since they had agreed to the Treaty and weakening the German economy since vast amounts of wealth had to be transferred from Germany to Britain/France to pay them.

In addition, Germany was obliged to borrow large sums from the U.S. simply to pay the reparation payments to Britain/France. This had the additional effect that when the depression hit and U.S. loans stopped, the German economy collapsed. Germany was the european country hardest hit by the depression with 6 million unemployed.

All these factors allowed the Nazis to take power in Germany which led to WW2.

If the Versailles treaty had been more fair, more along the line of Wilson's 14 points and if the Weimar Republic had been supported, the Nazis do not come to power and WW2 does not happen.

...so yes, Britain and France are responsible for WW2...

p.s. - As I have stated previously, one of the best books to understand WW2 is "The Wages of Destruction" by Tooze. He goes into the pre-war economic forces in much more detail then I ever could. Highly recommended reading.

http://www.amazon.ca/The-Wages-Destr.../dp/0143113208