Attacking a Convoy in Silent Hunter 3

[depthtok33l]

Greetings everyone, I am fairly new to the U-Boat/Atlantic scene, I got into this series from SH4. Really like it so far perhaps more than SH4 . At the moment I only have GWX installed and I've spent about 34 hours in-game.

Now obviously attacking with U-Boats is very different from Fleet Boats and I'd like to know how you guys attack convoys in this game or at least the standard way of doing so. I have no clue how, I've encountered 3 convoys so far and what I normally do is just get the convoy's speed, pick off a target, get the data and fire a full salvo. I usually hit the one I aimed for but I can't say the same for the rest of my fishes.

Anyways, I've been looking at videos on YouTube however I can't find any decent ones. Most of the videos I've encountered use Automatic Targeting.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks.

[UKönig]

That's a pretty big can of worms you opened up just there...

It's a very complicated subject to tackle effectively, because convoy engagements have so many variables.

One of the first things I did, was start reading up on the subject from historical accounts, be they the personal memoirs of the captains, or more general information about the battle of the Atlantic.

I, myself am not terribly great at shooting multiple ships at the same time, but I can offer what I have learned.

One of the most important aspects of a successful convoy engagement is the angle your boat approaches at. The ideal position is 90 degrees abeam, so that if they are sailing right to left (or left to right) the view from your scope will be like that in a shooting gallery. Almost never happens. Count yourself lucky if it does. 45 degrees off the target is good too, as long as you are ahead of it. This way, the target has fewer chances to take evasive action if the torpedo or your scope were spotted, and in all probability, will run right over it anyway.
Once you have your angle of approach worked out, the next step is to get into range. Varies with the types of torpedoes you have on board. Best chance for hits is 2 - 1 Km away. Not always attainable. This is where your experience will help you. If you are too far away at the outset, you may have to shadow the convoy on the surface, using your higher diesel engine output to run ahead of the ships, and then dive, to lie in wait...
That's if everything works out all right. When it doesn't (and it won't) you may have to deal with escort ships or aircraft, outfitted with Radar. They will pick you up, move in to investigate, and hopefully your watch crew or radar set will pick them up in time, forcing you to dive and give up your speed advantage. Very dicey, this convoy hunting business.
In a typical convoy deployment, the most valuable ships will be in the center, or as close to the center column as the formation allows. Tankers, troopships, passenger liners acting as troopships, and heavy cargo, of course. You won't get too many attacks right away so you have to make your shots count. This is where knowing how to set your torpedoes comes in. Do you fire one at a time, or spreading salvo? All at the same depth, or varying depth? Are they G7as and will leave a wake to be spotted by the target? In any case, once you have your targets picked out you have to begin the firing process quickly because these things can change for any reason, at any second. The longer you stay undetected, the better your chances to make multiple hits. Fire at the targets farthest away first. Try not to wait longer than 15 to 25 seconds the latest before sending your next fish on the way. Repeat as many times as targets worth shooting at, but you must do it quickly. If you are successful, your torpedoes should all impact more or less at the same time. It's a nice sight to see really...
But if you wait too long, you may hit one or two out of your four torpedo spread. Once those explosions start to happen, the herd starts to panic. Hard to port, hard to starboard, all stop, all full ahead, anything can happen. One thing is sure to happen though and that is, you missed with tubes 3 and 4.
Some Captains, the daring ones, will try to get as close as possible. Slip down to 20m and all stop or ahead 1 knot at silent running stations, to get through the escort screen. Once the escorts are comfortably away, up to periscope depth, secure from silent running, and prepare to attack. In some cases it's possible to attack on the surface or even from inside the convoy itself! Only time and experience will tell you when to try that.
I hope that helps somewhat, like I said, my method was to read historical accounts and try to apply what they taught me, if nothing else, use the exterior camera to help plan your attacks. And if you did all the torpedo settings manually, well, this would become a nightmare. I make most of my hits with automatic aiming.

[depthtok33l]

Originally Posted by UKönig

That's a pretty big can of worms you opened up just there...

It's a very complicated subject to tackle effectively, because convoy engagements have so many variables.

One of the first things I did, was start reading up on the subject from historical accounts, be they the personal memoirs of the captains, or more general information about the battle of the Atlantic.

I, myself am not terribly great at shooting multiple ships at the same time, but I can offer what I have learned.

One of the most important aspects of a successful convoy engagement is the angle your boat approaches at. The ideal position is 90 degrees abeam, so that if they are sailing right to left (or left to right) the view from your scope will be like that in a shooting gallery. Almost never happens. Count yourself lucky if it does. 45 degrees off the target is good too, as long as you are ahead of it. This way, the target has fewer chances to take evasive action if the torpedo or your scope were spotted, and in all probability, will run right over it anyway.
Once you have your angle of approach worked out, the next step is to get into range. Varies with the types of torpedoes you have on board. Best chance for hits is 2 - 1 Km away. Not always attainable. This is where your experience will help you. If you are too far away at the outset, you may have to shadow the convoy on the surface, using your higher diesel engine output to run ahead of the ships, and then dive, to lie in wait...
That's if everything works out all right. When it doesn't (and it won't) you may have to deal with escort ships or aircraft, outfitted with Radar. They will pick you up, move in to investigate, and hopefully your watch crew or radar set will pick them up in time, forcing you to dive and give up your speed advantage. Very dicey, this convoy hunting business.
In a typical convoy deployment, the most valuable ships will be in the center, or as close to the center column as the formation allows. Tankers, troopships, passenger liners acting as troopships, and heavy cargo, of course. You won't get too many attacks right away so you have to make your shots count. This is where knowing how to set your torpedoes comes in. Do you fire one at a time, or spreading salvo? All at the same depth, or varying depth? Are they G7as and will leave a wake to be spotted by the target? In any case, once you have your targets picked out you have to begin the firing process quickly because these things can change for any reason, at any second. The longer you stay undetected, the better your chances to make multiple hits. Fire at the targets farthest away first. Try not to wait longer than 15 to 25 seconds the latest before sending your next fish on the way. Repeat as many times as targets worth shooting at, but you must do it quickly. If you are successful, your torpedoes should all impact more or less at the same time. It's a nice sight to see really...
But if you wait too long, you may hit one or two out of your four torpedo spread. Once those explosions start to happen, the herd starts to panic. Hard to port, hard to starboard, all stop, all full ahead, anything can happen. One thing is sure to happen though and that is, you missed with tubes 3 and 4.
Some Captains, the daring ones, will try to get as close as possible. Slip down to 20m and all stop or ahead 1 knot at silent running stations, to get through the escort screen. Once the escorts are comfortably away, up to periscope depth, secure from silent running, and prepare to attack. In some cases it's possible to attack on the surface or even from inside the convoy itself! Only time and experience will tell you when to try that.
I hope that helps somewhat, like I said, my method was to read historical accounts and try to apply what they taught me, if nothing else, use the exterior camera to help plan your attacks. And if you did all the torpedo settings manually, well, this would become a nightmare. I make most of my hits with automatic aiming.

This game is more complicated than I thought then, anyways thanks for the input.

[UKönig]

I'd say they did a pretty good job simulating what combat under the waves aboard a U-boat during the war was like, yeah. Some players complain about levels of realism and historical accuracy, but I think unlike some game engines, this one hangs together very well, and well, it's 2015 now and I am still willing to spend time at it, so it has staying power. That's good to know for when retirement age rolls around...

[GT182]

Try and get past the escorts... let them go by you. Once inside the convoy reek havoc on the most valuable ships. Change directions but keep after them. If they are half way past you turn and follow, and attack from the rear. They're zig zagging and you'll be able to get a broadside shot at them.

Now, if you are attacked... if one that isn't sinking very fast and hide under it. You will be safe and able to leave when they get tired of looking and leave. Remember their course. You can surface once they're out of sight and to an end run around to get back ahead of them again. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. If you find them and are ahead of them, hit em again.

[Rambler241]

One of the most important aspects of a successful convoy engagement is the angle your boat approaches at. The ideal position is 90 degrees abeam, so that if they are sailing right to left (or left to right) the view from your scope will be like that in a shooting gallery.

Well, no the "ideal approach angle" can't be 90°, now can it? You then say

Once you have your angle of approach worked out, the next step is to get into range.

Which means that if the approach is at 90° to the centre of the convoy, by the time you get into range, most of the ships will be to left or right, depending on which side you're attacking from. Apart from that, most convoys have flanking escorts, so at some stage you're likely to have to pass fairly close to one. Not a good start.

45 degrees off the target is good too, as long as you are ahead of it.

Around 45° is the only way to do it - maintaining a safe distance from both the leading escort and the flanking escort(s), before commencing your attack. If you aren't ahead, then you have to get ahead, while avoiding detection.

Best chance for hits is 2 - 1 Km away.

Really? Are you suggesting that less than 1 km reduces your chances of a hit?

[UKönig]

Originally Posted by Rambler241

Well, no the "ideal approach angle" can't be 90°, now can it? You then say

Abeam of the target as if you are crossing the letter "T" where the short top is the ship course and the long bottom is your torpedo track. Does it make sense now? I told you I am bad at describing things in numbers. The error was mine.
Which means that if the approach is at 90° to the centre of the convoy, by the time you get into range, most of the ships will be to left or right, depending on which side you're attacking from. Apart from that, most convoys have flanking escorts, so at some stage you're likely to have to pass fairly close to one. Not a good start.

Yes exactly why if you get in and are able to make your shots cross the "T" you are lucky indeed. Too bad it's probably what you'll have to rely on while carrying out such a risky move. But that's why you joined the Kriegsmarine in the first place, isn't it.
Around 45° is the only way to do it - maintaining a safe distance from both the leading escort and the flanking escort(s), before commencing your attack. If you aren't ahead, then you have to get ahead, while avoiding detection.
All true
Really? Are you suggesting that less than 1 km reduces your chances of a hit?

Unless this is sarcasm, yes, the closer your barrel is to the target, the less chance the bullet will miss. You can't always get to point blank with a torpedo, and if you are close enough to touch your tubes against her hull, it's probably already resulted in a collision. If you can wait to 500 meters away even against a ship that is zig-zagging, you will still have a decent chance to hit. Take that out to 1.5Km or 3 Km and you can imagine what will happen on your own. These are things I have tried and tested many times over and they never fail. Until they do (for me) I stand by it.

[Zosimus]

Personally I have found that the best way to hit multiple targets is to set yourself between the rows of ships. That way you can fire at a promising target with your fore slavo and another target with your aft. This only works if you're at a 90º angle.

[RJBub1]

This has nothing to do with the convoy subject, however I'm a big fan of your Youtube Channel!

[depthtok33l]

Originally Posted by Zosimus

Personally I have found that the best way to hit multiple targets is to set yourself between the rows of ships. That way you can fire at a promising target with your fore slavo and another target with your aft. This only works if you're at a 90º angle.

Originally Posted by UKönig

Unless this is sarcasm, yes, the closer your barrel is to the target, the less chance the bullet will miss. You can't always get to point blank with a torpedo, and if you are close enough to touch your tubes against her hull, it's probably already resulted in a collision. If you can wait to 500 meters away even against a ship that is zig-zagging, you will still have a decent chance to hit. Take that out to 1.5Km or 3 Km and you can imagine what will happen on your own. These are things I have tried and tested many times over and they never fail. Until they do (for me) I stand by it.

Originally Posted by Rambler241

Well, no the "ideal approach angle" can't be 90°, now can it? You then say

Which means that if the approach is at 90° to the centre of the convoy, by the time you get into range, most of the ships will be to left or right, depending on which side you're attacking from. Apart from that, most convoys have flanking escorts, so at some stage you're likely to have to pass fairly close to one. Not a good start.

Around 45° is the only way to do it - maintaining a safe distance from both the leading escort and the flanking escort(s), before commencing your attack. If you aren't ahead, then you have to get ahead, while avoiding detection.

Really? Are you suggesting that less than 1 km reduces your chances of a hit?

Come on guys let's keep this a friendly conversation.

Originally Posted by RJBub1

This has nothing to do with the convoy subject, however I'm a big fan of your Youtube Channel!

Thanks buddy, really appreciate it!

[UKönig]

Not to worry, I am all about friendly conversation.
Besides, I've dealt with some really nasty people and some really nasty situations, so it takes a lot more than name calling or telling me I'm stupid and don't know what I'm saying to ruffle *my* feathers.
Put simply, the closer you are to your target the less chance you will miss it, and that is a true statement, whether your weapon is a torpedo, a bullet, or even a knife. No offense taken or assumed on my part.

[Johnners]

Hi. I do remember seeing a video by OLC showing his method for attacking a convoy using his gui mod which I found helpful but I can't remember where I saw it - it was a few years ago and I haven't been able to find it in the downloads section (was actually looking for myself a week or so back). Perhaps someone's recall is better than mine and may be able to help?

[GJO]

Originally Posted by Zosimus

Personally I have found that the best way to hit multiple targets is to set yourself between the rows of ships. That way you can fire at a promising target with your fore slavo and another target with your aft. This only works if you're at a 90º angle.

This is the only way to get the really juicy targets although not necessarily at 90 degrees. I prefer to get on a nearly parallel course as close to the centre of the convoy as possible - this makes it very easy to get an accurate measure of the convoy's speed - easy enough in the early years (even with a night attack on the surface) - even in later years it is possible to get into the middle of a slow convoy and play havoc.

After 1940 with armed merchants all around, surface attacks become very risky so this method is best used with a submerged attack on slow convoys and even then, too much time spent travelling with the periscope up or at anything faster than 1 Kt will attract the early attention of the escorts.

I rarely fire a torpedoe from within a convoy unless I am on a nearly parallel couse to the target at a distance of between 450 and 500 Metres - I have found that, after much practice, I can get the torpedoes to run at approximately 90 degrees to my course and score a crippling hit on the target. I know some regard this as 'firing from the hip' but I believe many of the more succseful WWII commanders used similar intuitive methods. In other words, many of their deliberations as to distance would have been the result of an inspired guess based on knowledge and experience.

It is essential to get the torpedoes out fast and then escape as quickly as possible - especially in the later years. Those targets that fail to sink are often crippled and can be found later well behind the main convoy to be finished off when the tubes have been reloaded.

[Zosimus]

That's great. So you can fire the torpedoes out the front tubes, have them curve a bit, and hit the ships.

But this doesn't let you use the aft tubes.

[Andrakis]

I've noticed that if you are firing for multiple targets in a convoy, that basing your firing order on the impact time can help mitigate the dodging effect.

That is to say. My further targets will have torpedoes fired at maximum speed, closer targets at slow. The ideal situation is having all of your volleys striking as simultaneously as possible.

That's easier said than done, however.