Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks

Rockin Robbins · 09-03-15, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tshark

Using the three minute tracking method to obtain target speed I seem to consistently over estimate speed by 2 knots. This has occurred in quick missions against warships and career against merchants. Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

Okay, tshark, we'll do the checklist and see if you left anything off.

Are you using Imperial measurements? The 3 minute rule works for yards, not meters. However if you were measuring the distance in meters you would get a smaller number and underestimate the speed, so that isn't happening here.
Are you using radar to plot your positions. It is by far most accurate. Sonar is a good second bet. If you are using the stadimeter outside of 2500 yards all bets are off and your speed has to be considered a beta version--maybe an alpha version of speed. With stadimeter get that last estimate of speed as close to the target as you can.
Using the pencil on the nav map to X the two positions, then using the compass to measure the distance? The number of hundred yards the target ran in the three minutes is the speed in knots. 900 yards would mean 9 knots.

Then there is the all-present monkey wrench. How do you know your speed measurement is 2 knots too fast? The answer to that question could lead us to other parts of your targeting procedure.

ColonelSandersLite · 09-03-15, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The 3 minute rule works for yards, not meters.

To clarify, meters requires 3m 15s

Tshark · 09-03-15, 06:43 PM

Doing a little bit of cheating here in that contacts are updated on the chart. As soon as I raise a periscope or am on the surface the visual contacts appear on my chart and I can zoom down to ship outline and watch the movement. I confirmed I was using yards. How do I know I am in error by 2 knots? Well, I replayed the "Midway" quick mission about 10 to 15 times. Each time the Kongo BB plotted out to 16kts. The first half dozen attempts had my fish passing ahead of the ship (if they didn't prematurely explode). I dialed the speed down to 14kts and my torpedo tracks are looking good. I then went out on my first career patrol and got to track a lone merchant. The merchant plotted out to 6kts. Away go the fish and again they passed ahead of target. Lucky for me the merchant was as new to this as I am and continued on course oblivious. I set up another attack and this time dialed the speed down to 4kts. BOOM plus three dud torpedoes! As it stands now I just subtract 2kts from the three minute calculation and it seems to work. Just wondering what I am doing that is throwing the calc off?

TorpX · 09-03-15, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tshark

How do I know I am in error by 2 knots? Well, I replayed the "Midway" quick mission about 10 to 15 times. Each time the Kongo BB plotted out to 16kts. The first half dozen attempts had my fish passing ahead of the ship (if they didn't prematurely explode). I dialed the speed down to 14kts and my torpedo tracks are looking good. I then went out on my first career patrol and got to track a lone merchant. The merchant plotted out to 6kts. Away go the fish and again they passed ahead of target.

With the stock game, or stock game physics, ships often will spot a torpedo, throw the rudder hard over, and slow down dramatically. Torps mostly miss ahead. It sounds like your speed estimates are ok to me.

Tshark · 09-03-15, 10:41 PM

I got a chance to make a couple more attacks tonight included using the "Dick O'Kane" method (hard to go back to the stadimeter now) and the speed calc seemed right on. Not quite sure what the problem was earlier as I am doing everything the same. I know this is a long shot, but I wonder if my earlier audio problems were somehow contributing to this issue. All the previous attacks were done while I was still wrestling with having only half the sounds playing correctly. I didn't notice any lag on the chart movement, but now I just don't know. Thanks for taking your time to help me.

Rockin Robbins · 09-04-15, 06:29 AM

Good thing tshark! If you want to see targets juke out of the way, try using the John P Cromwell technique from 45º ahead of the target during the day and with Mark 14s. You'll waste some torpedoes but it's fun to watch.

They'll always turn into the torpedo. Since you know which way they will dodge, it's easy to send a second torpedo up a path to block that maneuver. Then it's only a matter or which torpedo they get to eat.

Of course the disadvantage is that you automatically waste half your torpedoes. If you're going to shoot John P Cromwell attacks in the daytime better to use Mark 18s.

Rockin Robbins · 09-10-15, 10:51 AM

Crap! It's always SOMETHING. I'm running GFO/RSRDC, which uses the conventional plotting system. Trying to make a conventional targeting video, but Murphy's Law has reared its ugly head. I found a ship to stalk and.......no position marker, no silhouette! That means that somehow either GFO or more likely RSRDC has a problem.

Now it's not that it isn't possible to do the job without the position marker, it just makes it easer on the newbie to be able to use the basic plotting scheme.

I used up half my fuel just finding this one target. And I guess this needs finding the problem and fixing anyway, so there will be a delay for the first video.

Rockin Robbins · 09-03-15, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

To clarify, meters requires 3m 15s

39"/36"x3 min = 3.25 min = 3 min 15 sec

Tshark, if you're using 3 minutes by the stopwatch, marking the center of the silhouette with the pencil, measuring the distance with the compass you can't be 2 knots off. Have you been installing and uninstalling lots of mods? And never apologize for setting the difficulty back to learn basic principles of the game. That's why the option exists. And don't make the mistake of confusing difficulty with realism either!

ColonelSandersLite · 09-03-15, 07:07 PM

Can you record one of your torpedo attacks? That would probably be the best way for us to to figure out what you're doing wrong.

Edit: Just after posting that, I had a thought. Are you 100% sure you're not accidentally plotting at 4 minute intervals? That would just about match the results your getting.

Past that, yeah, we would probably actually have to see what you're doing to diagnose.

09-04-15, 06:29 AM	#6
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Good thing tshark! If you want to see targets juke out of the way, try using the John P Cromwell technique from 45º ahead of the target during the day and with Mark 14s. You'll waste some torpedoes but it's fun to watch. They'll always turn into the torpedo. Since you know which way they will dodge, it's easy to send a second torpedo up a path to block that maneuver. Then it's only a matter or which torpedo they get to eat. Of course the disadvantage is that you automatically waste half your torpedoes. If you're going to shoot John P Cromwell attacks in the daytime better to use Mark 18s. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS Last edited by Rockin Robbins; 09-04-15 at 06:36 AM.

09-10-15, 10:51 AM	#7
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Crap! It's always SOMETHING. I'm running GFO/RSRDC, which uses the conventional plotting system. Trying to make a conventional targeting video, but Murphy's Law has reared its ugly head. I found a ship to stalk and.......no position marker, no silhouette! That means that somehow either GFO or more likely RSRDC has a problem. Now it's not that it isn't possible to do the job without the position marker, it just makes it easer on the newbie to be able to use the basic plotting scheme. I used up half my fuel just finding this one target. And I guess this needs finding the problem and fixing anyway, so there will be a delay for the first video. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

09-03-15, 07:07 PM	#9
ColonelSandersLite Captain Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 481 Downloads: 74 Uploads: 3	Can you record one of your torpedo attacks? That would probably be the best way for us to to figure out what you're doing wrong. Edit: Just after posting that, I had a thought. Are you 100% sure you're not accidentally plotting at 4 minute intervals? That would just about match the results your getting. Past that, yeah, we would probably actually have to see what you're doing to diagnose. __________________ My SH4 LP Last edited by ColonelSandersLite; 09-03-15 at 07:27 PM.

09-03-15, 06:43 PM	#3
Tshark Sailor man Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 49 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Doing a little bit of cheating here in that contacts are updated on the chart. As soon as I raise a periscope or am on the surface the visual contacts appear on my chart and I can zoom down to ship outline and watch the movement. I confirmed I was using yards. How do I know I am in error by 2 knots? Well, I replayed the "Midway" quick mission about 10 to 15 times. Each time the Kongo BB plotted out to 16kts. The first half dozen attempts had my fish passing ahead of the ship (if they didn't prematurely explode). I dialed the speed down to 14kts and my torpedo tracks are looking good. I then went out on my first career patrol and got to track a lone merchant. The merchant plotted out to 6kts. Away go the fish and again they passed ahead of target. Lucky for me the merchant was as new to this as I am and continued on course oblivious. I set up another attack and this time dialed the speed down to 4kts. BOOM plus three dud torpedoes! As it stands now I just subtract 2kts from the three minute calculation and it seems to work. Just wondering what I am doing that is throwing the calc off?

09-03-15, 10:41 PM	#5
Tshark Sailor man Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 49 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	I got a chance to make a couple more attacks tonight included using the "Dick O'Kane" method (hard to go back to the stadimeter now) and the speed calc seemed right on. Not quite sure what the problem was earlier as I am doing everything the same. I know this is a long shot, but I wonder if my earlier audio problems were somehow contributing to this issue. All the previous attacks were done while I was still wrestling with having only half the sounds playing correctly. I didn't notice any lag on the chart movement, but now I just don't know. Thanks for taking your time to help me.