Stock Market update: Everybody panic!

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Healthcare, infrastructure, rescue services, education cuts, the how-poor-you-have-to-be to gain some tax cuts or benefits so your family doesn't starve is lower every year and every day I have to hear some poor sod with 3 cars, good connections and a spoiled brat sucking his thumb on a job he got becasue his daddy bent his ass to someone trying to tell me it's my fault I'm poor and how he had it tough paying 0 rent in goverment housing....
You might understand why I get a bit jumpy when my generations is blamed on everything while every graph and number shows me that the generation before a looooooot more money for their buck.
And I know I'm European, that's why I expect services. I pay taxes to be cared for. I pay taxes so I don't have to jump insurance hoops to get my asthma medicine, I pay taxes so my children can get a Univerity education without taking impossible loans and I pay taxes so I can drive on bridges that are not near collapse. Thats what my parents had for low taxes that left them enough money to build a house. I can't rent an apartment in the nearby steel town. And numbers wise I made 4 times what they made at my age.
And all that mobile phone crap, most of us buy one for 2 or more years. Just becasue some spoiled brats have a new iphone every week doesn't mean the whole generation is rotten. Just those that don't worry about money. Those who's parents have enough bad concience about screwing us bent over backwards to really be loud.
And everytime we demand better value for the tax we pay are called spoiled just because the poor generation before us had to drive around in cars that didn't had A/C.

Ah, I see, thanks. I really cannot speak to that, the whole "taxes to be cared for" thing is a language I don't understand. You know how it works, everyone wants to pay as little as they can and get as much as they can... it's a hopeless situation.

I'm not saying the whole generation is rotten, I hope it doesn't come across as that. You for example, are one of the good ones.

Edit: Getting back to the topic, I bet you guys hate this dude
While Many Panicked, Japanese Day Trader Made $34 Million
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ade-34-million



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[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I'm not saying the whole generation is rotten, I hope it doesn't come across as that. You for example, are one of the good ones.

It's a curse. I see the rottenes around me. I cannot ignore it. It makes me angry.

Ah, I see, thanks. I really cannot speak to that, the whole "taxes to be cared for" thing is a language I don't understand. You know how it works, everyone wants to pay as little as they can and get as much as they can... it's a hopeless situation.

Yugosalvia income tax was less than 15% and my parents had free healthcare, goverment apartment if they couldn't afford one of their own, free car if they lived in a rural area where there was no public transportation, free education and every book that was needed for the curriculum of the child was also free.

I had to pay 27% income tax. What did I get. Healthcare is still free, education is still free. I had to buy my own car despite me living in the middle of nowhere, the cheapest apartment would cost me more than a third of the wage monthly and luckily I don't have to spend €400 per year so my child has the needed books to pass the grade, becasue I'm mortally affraid to have children on the account I can't afford one.

I dont' want to pay as little as possible and get as much as possible. I may be a socialist but I'm not a hippie.
I just want to get as much as I paid for.

[Politenessman]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Yugosalvia income tax was less than 15% and my parents had free healthcare, goverment apartment if they couldn't afford one of their own, free car if they lived in a rural area where there was no public transportation, free education and every book that was needed for the curriculum of the child was also free.

I dont' want to pay as little as possible and get as much as possible. I may be a socialist but I'm not a hippie.
I just want to get as much as I paid for.

I'd guess that there is most of your problem, much like Greece, you (as a society) chose free stuff and not to pay much tax to get it.

Unfortunately the money runs out and the societal Ponzi scheme of letting the next generation pay for it has gone off the rails, because in Europe, you haven't had a next generation (read up on the demographics, Mark Steyn has a number of entertaining books on the looming societal collapse in Europe). Advice, get out if you have a marketable skill, if you haven't, get a marketable skill and get out.

[Oberon]

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Politenessman

I'd guess that there is most of your problem, much like Greece, you (as a society) chose free stuff and not to pay much tax to get it.

Unfortunately the money runs out and the societal Ponzi scheme of letting the next generation pay for it has gone off the rails, because in Europe, you haven't had a next generation (read up on the demographics, Mark Steyn has a number of entertaining books on the looming societal collapse in Europe). Advice, get out if you have a marketable skill, if you haven't, get a marketable skill and get out.

Except that we don't excpect free stuff. We except a return on our taxes.
Greece collapsed because there was high level corruption sucking money dry with a population that used every trick in the book to avoid paying them. Greece would have floundered even without all the ''freebies'' we Euros get.
Slovenia has a good track record of paying taxes but has a high level corruption that is sucking us dry. Healthcare and education are not sucking us dry. Fat cats do. Teachers and doctors don't.
And then there's debt. Yugoslavia had 13,6 billion dollar debt in 1988. The countries that form the area today have a total debt of 184 billion dollars. Inflation ws not that high and the biggest share of that debt has Slovenia, which avoided the bloody mess of the nineties Balkans.

So how come the national debt skyrocketed when we lost a lot of the ''freebies'' my parents had. It doesn't make sense.

And move where, every other developed country has the same social system. Taxes for healthcare, education, roads.

And one more thing, there is no looming social collapse in Europe. Greece is Europe, but Europe is not Greece. We are angry, we are dissapointed, but we are still going about our business trying to get our collective asses organised enough to put some pressure on the fat cats. As we say in Slovenia: EU is bad, but imagine if we'd live in the US.

[Politenessman]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Except that we don't excpect free stuff. We except a return on our taxes.
Greece collapsed because there was high level corruption sucking money dry with a population that used every trick in the book to avoid paying them. Greece would have floundered even without all the ''freebies'' we Euros get.
Slovenia has a good track record of paying taxes but has a high level corruption that is sucking us dry. Healthcare and education are not sucking us dry. Fat cats do. Teachers and doctors don't.
And then there's debt. Yugoslavia had 13,6 billion dollar debt in 1988. The countries that form the area today have a total debt of 184 billion dollars. Inflation ws not that high and the biggest share of that debt has Slovenia, which avoided the bloody mess of the nineties Balkans.

So how come the national debt skyrocketed when we lost a lot of the ''freebies'' my parents had. It doesn't make sense.

And move where, every other developed country has the same social system. Taxes for healthcare, education, roads.

And one more thing, there is no looming social collapse in Europe. Greece is Europe, but Europe is not Greece. We are angry, we are dissapointed, but we are still going about our business trying to get our collective asses organised enough to put some pressure on the fat cats. As we say in Slovenia: EU is bad, but imagine if we'd live in the US.

At risk of stating the obvious, where do you think that debt comes from? as a society, you lived beyond your means and as the debt goes up, so does the interest rate (because you are a bigger default risk), which means less money to provide the 'free' services, so they get cut AND taxes go up.

You misunderstand the crisis you face, the financial one is a disaster, but the demographic one is existential, it means you won't have the tax base to pay for your debts or services.

Move where? look for a country where they are having enough children to pay the taxes for the services you will need as you age, it helps if the country isn't running major deficts too.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Politenessman

look for a country where they are having enough children to pay the taxes for the services you will need as you age, it helps if the country isn't running major deficts too.

So somewhere in Africa, or wherever there's a major war going on.

Peak child isn't just a European or American thing, it's a global thing caused by the improvement of medical practices and standards of living. When living standards go up, when children stop dying before they reach double figures then people have less children. It's a natural progression.

Does that mean we're going to have to pay for the aging population? Yes, of course it does, we're already seeing a massive rise in dementia rates and housing for old people, but that's just how it goes. You cannot have a constantly youthful population, it will swing between the two, because if you were to have a constantly youthful population growth then you would soon outgrow the planet you live on. We're already over 7 billion in total on this planet, mostly clustered in certain areas because we don't have the financial incentive to spread out more. Thus, trapped within the financial constraints we have made for ourselves, increasing the global population at a reckless pace is foolhardy. Unless you plan to go Logans Run and kill everyone when they reach 40.

[Politenessman]

Originally Posted by Oberon

So somewhere in Africa, or wherever there's a major war going on.

Peak child isn't just a European or American thing, it's a global thing caused by the improvement of medical practices and standards of living. When living standards go up, when children stop dying before they reach double figures then people have less children. It's a natural progression.

Does that mean we're going to have to pay for the aging population? Yes, of course it does, we're already seeing a massive rise in dementia rates and housing for old people, but that's just how it goes. You cannot have a constantly youthful population, it will swing between the two, because if you were to have a constantly youthful population growth then you would soon outgrow the planet you live on. We're already over 7 billion in total on this planet, mostly clustered in certain areas because we don't have the financial incentive to spread out more. Thus, trapped within the financial constraints we have made for ourselves, increasing the global population at a reckless pace is foolhardy. Unless you plan to go Logans Run and kill everyone when they reach 40.

"Peak child" has nothing to do with it, it just lowers the figure to reach replacement rate, before you comment further I'd suggest you read up on demographics otherwise you are at risk of making a fool of yourself.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Politenessman

You misunderstand the crisis you face, the financial one is a disaster, but the demographic one is existential, it means you won't have the tax base to pay for your debts or services.

You missunderstand Europe. No wonder since you quoted Mark Steyn and after a research of his works I have concluded that I wouldn't use those books for fertilizer. They're a load of crap, but they lack actual nutritional values to be an actual manure.

Don't you worry your pretty litle head about Europe. We always find a way to deal with these problems, the hard way or the easy way. So we'll just have to pay our own pensions as we work and not relly on the younger generation for it. And maybe start educating our children on more savy financial maneouvers like investing money in growing markets so there's always a possible second income. Maybe we will turn hard left, nationalize our industries, throw the greedy fat cats into jail and live off the billions they wouldn't share. Maybe we'll turn far right, throw out anyone that doesn't fit in. Maybe we'll finally see the old generation without ideas die out and start a new world that's focused on prosperity rather than cheap political scoring.

European first half century is always turbolent which then evens out to second half of prosperity. So I chose the interesting time to get born.

[Platapus]

ll I know is that I am getting my end of year investment reports and every single one of my accounts has grown. Not as much as I want, of course.

But I can remember a time, not that long ago, when having an investment hold its value made me the big winner in my household.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Edit: Getting back to the topic, I bet you guys hate this dude
While Many Panicked, Japanese Day Trader Made $34 Million
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ade-34-million

Nah, he made the right move at the right time.
Nothing to hate here.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Nah, he made the right move at the right time.
Nothing to hate here.

Same...I mean, if you can make money without exploiting other people to do it, then that's fair game. I mean, Stock brokerage is a bit like gambling really, but a lot deeper admittedly. Would love to take a spin at it myself but I'd probably put my dosh on a company that goes Goldman Sachs.