New and Used Ships and Subs for SH4 1.4 Users

[ETR3(SS)]

Well I certainly didn't anticipate or hope for this kind of solution, so let me say a few words on my thoughts and feelings.

I was a stalwart 1.4 user for quite a while refusing to pay for a 1.5 patch to the game (that was a hornets nest back when it came out). Like you, I saw the lack of mods being made for the 1.4 users and decided to give modding a try. That's when I started with the Ohio and Skipjack that Tomagabriel had made.

I never got into SH3 modding, so modding SH4 was a learning experience. I taught myself and asked a few questions. Given the nature of my mods it was pushing the limits on what we could do to make it as close to reality as possible while sticking in the WWII setting. Then add on top of that things that worked in SH3 no longer worked in 4.

Eventually I broke down and got 1.5, and I can't say I regret it. I'm not a fanboy of the uboats at all, so that aspect didn't interest me in the slightest. It was the bug fixes that came with it that made life easier. I broke away from modding 1.4 even though I still had an install for that version. But in that time I had taken over the Los Angeles and focused my efforts on understanding the game mechanics and improving this one mod.

Oh and the hate. It wasn't much but a comment here and there about "Why don't you go play Sub Command or Dangerous Waters?!" "That's not realistic at all!" The realism nazis came out of the woodwork to tell me how to mod and play a game I spent my money on.

So there is the brief rundown on my modding upbringing. Now let me go into detail about finding this thread and my feelings on it, from the perspective of an affected individual.

I read your whole post and looked over the entire list before addressing my work. Let me point out where you ruffled some feathers. You openly did not claim that this was all your work. But you did claim that you converted them for 1.4, thus claiming it as your work. Now this is where I started looking at screenshots and downloading what were my mods. An artist will recognize their work and it didn't take long to figure out what I was looking at.

My reaction. I have no problem with people modding my work for their own use on their computer, I'm guilty of the same thing myself. What really got me was that you took what was my work, modified it from it's original release state, and redistributed it as work you had done when in fact I had already done all the work. Now you might have picked it up somewhere else and some of these changes were already made, thus not fully your fault, but you are the one that got caught with you hands in the cookie jar.

Modding can be a cutthroat business, not just here but anywhere. Hence about 95% of my work never sees the light of day. And I mod quite a few games. But anyways I had to say something. There's no need to be a dick to get your point across but you do need to be firm in the matter. And honestly the only people who should be up in arms about this are the affected modders! And then it is up to them how best to handle the situation. Getting permission can be a long process but a needed one to avoid just a situation we have here. For example I started working on the 688i before receiving permission, but I did try all the means at my disposal to contact the original modder. Eventually he came back and granted me permission but this was after I had already released the mod.

You've learned a hard lesson about the modding world in not the prettiest way possible. I for one want you to continue your work with this lesson in hand, if for no other reason than the torch needs to be passed to a new generation of modders. I've lost my drive for modding SH4 and no longer will, at least for public release.

Anyways at the end of the day all I wanted was my work taken down. Sorry it created a firestorm. And I don't have any ill feelings toward you on the matter. I've reached the end of my attention span that ADD gives me and I think I addressed everything as best as possible. Keep modding, if only just for yourself.

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

I read your whole post and looked over the entire list before addressing my work. Let me point out where you ruffled some feathers. You openly did not claim that this was all your work. But you did claim that you converted them for 1.4, thus claiming it as your work. Now this is where I started looking at screenshots and downloading what were my mods. An artist will recognize their work and it didn't take long to figure out what I was looking at.

speaking purely as a fellow modder and not as a moderators position, I see it as if he made the claim he converted it to use with v1.4 and that is what he did, then that is not "claiming it as his work". lets face it, if he altered the mod to work with a different game then the alteration "is" his work as long as he maintains the credits to the original modder for the mod itself "as best he can" and makes no claim to the content and form of the original mod as his own, just saying.

and to be clear, I think any removal of original modders documentation or alterations that change the mod from its original form and content beyond the adapting to the v1.4 game is mod tampering in my view and I think there was no bad intent here, just a misunderstanding.

I will also add that if you create a mod and someone sends you a PM to request permissions to convert or for using all or part of it, then it is very "reasonable" for anyone to assume the lack of any reply after the appropriate time has passed (I would think 2 weeks) then that lack of reply can and should be viewed as a sign the modder has abandoned the work or is no longer around or does not care so it would be ok to go ahead.

that said, a late or after the fact contact from the modder objecting to its use should have the mod removed or corrected to overcome the objection or outright removed if insisted upon or the issue cant be resolved.

but I will add this, if a mod is made for v1.5 and the modder does not want to make a v1.4 version but someone else does, I see no permission would be required just to convert the mod to v1.4 "provided" the mod as a whole was left intact as originally created along with all original read me or documentation and then maybe a brief note added that it was converted by whoever for v1.4 use and say if it was done with or even without permission because you couldn't contact the original mod maker.

the main thing is to protect the credits and I think that is where most people are most protective or any statements that do not clearly spell out who created the mod.

I am glad you two are having this conversation and hopefully the issues raised can be sorted out and this mod conversion can be re released with proper credits and documentations still in tact.

[Riken19]

I see both of your points. Some modders may see their work reposted and will raise all hell to get it removed. Some modders aren't around or just don't care what happens, or some, like you sir, don't mind as long as it's left untouched. While your's were already created for v1.4, I really saw no problem with taking them down as requested. no sense in double posting a mod unless it's to put all the eggs in one basket.

On the part of deleting the text for docs. I had an older computer back then...really slow. Yes. I deleted them when I put them into my mods folder. and if Karle had to say something, it would be, "why did you delete my 3D folder in it"? again, it was to save space. I realized that it was for going back and working on the 3D itself and did not affect the game it they were taken out. I 7zipped the mod and placed it in my personal MOD library for a back up on my external. no harm, no foul.

I played like this for years building my library as I found mods that worked with 1.4. seeing all those other cool mods that didn't work for my game, and wanting them badly, but couldn't have them. I decided to start learning. So instead of asking someone to help teach me, I set off to play around with minor changes. This would mean weapons only at this point

I dug around here for any information I could get my hands on for converting a mod and used from lots of practice and head banging to get a simplier way of converting done. That's when I got going. I hit the web looking for any mods for this game. Whether it was for SHIII, SH4, SHV, I converted it.

One day, I saw several post asking if it will work in 1.4 on several mods. No one had an answer or just said no, its for 1.5 only. I had the mental image of a starving child looking into a restraunt window and being shooed away. I had all these mods in my pocket and more at home waiting to be converted that these people wanted.

That's when I took the mods that I had in my personal library and began to upload them all. While doing so, I again had the mental image of that same child looking through the window, but this time I walked up and gave that child money to go inside and eat. That drove me harder to get it done.

After all was uploaded and awesomely presented here, I sat back and waited, and waited, and waited. I fell asleep in my office chair that night waiting. When I woke up, I saw that I had people downloading. at that point, I had 438 downloads in a matter of 1 hour. I thought to myself, This game just came back to life in full swing!

We don't need to go any further than that because that's what we're working on now.

But when I uploaded everything I had, it was the way I had set it all up in my personal game. Yes I removed extra 3D files, and documentation to save space. those files were already 7zipped and ready to go. I am guilty of being in a hurry and not fixing that. In the future I will make sure to reestablish the credit line and docs, along with my taking no credit in open forum.

I did not have any problems with any of you that has posted on this topic. You just got caught up in the mix of it all. I am truly sorry that it was pointed at you. I was just openly defending myself to those who hid behind the internet and emails. I was calling them out.

I do ask that maybe we can see if we can get a section for 1.4 and 1.5 set up in the Ship Downloads. I know all the mods are sparaticly spread out all over and get buried over topics. This will also help for dead links.

On the dead links side of it, Let me know of the ship and i'll look to see if I have it, If I do, I'll secure permission to upload it. I'm getting ready for a flood now, but I do what I do for the fans of SH. The starving children

[yubba]

I was about to download a couple of these what a loss,, it a shame that some got their panties in a bunch,, I know I fix acouple of these to get them to run properly I got pt 109 to fire torpedos and changed deck gun load out

[aanker]

Originally Posted by yubba

I was about to download a couple of these what a loss,, it a shame that some got their panties in a bunch,, I know I fix acouple of these to get them to run properly I got pt 109 to fire torpedos and changed deck gun load out

Well that would be nice, to have a PT boat that can fire a torpedo, and have the guns working. How did you do it? (apology for going off topic here)

[yubba]

QUOTE=aanker;2322961]Well that would be nice, to have a PT boat that can fire a torpedo, and have the guns working. How did you do it? (apology for going off topic here)[ QUOTE]
it was quite a while back,, use the pt 109 found here ,, it was lacking torpedos in the equipment files just add them like I said it was a while back and I mostly forgot what I did but I have it up and running sadly I couldn't get it to run in a campaign the torps will fire as same as a sub I had no problems running at full speed and fireing and hitting the target,, your best way to edit this mod is to compare the files of the pt 109 to the files of the sub it is based on and fill in where the torpedos are missing you only get 4 and you will have to go to battlestations and time compress and they will load into the tubes

[yubba]

Ok for you hot rods out there,, the pt 109 that is here lacks a torpedo room ,, to add,, open the pt mod go to data/submarine/nss-pt-109/nss-pt-109 UPC file,,,scroll down through compartments you'll find that there isn't a forward torpedo room, I went to the porpoise UPC file and scrolled down till I found that torpedo room I copied it and pasted into the pt109 UPC file reads User player unit 1 compartment 6 id forward porpoise bow torpedo room ,, and renumber other compartments accordingly,, you'll start mission with tubes empty go to battlestations and hit auto load an then time compress tubes will load,,that's the best of my recollection as I went back to my pt yubba and compared the files of both ,,it's a start for you and if you all don't mind how about fixing this so it is in a campaign ,, have fun,, Even I knew Riken 19 didn't mean any harm he fixed those mods so all of us could enjoy them,, I thought sub simmers were better than this after all the petty crap I've seen over in the IL-2 community