Germanwings Airbus Crashed in France

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

What has surprised me regarding this co-pilot is the few amount of hours flying time under his belt. I think he had 630 hours all told.

I had to have about 3 times that just to get an interview here in the states.

I admit i too was surprised by the hours he had, but i had assumed this was relative to the demand in Europe for pilots. I wonder if their pay is crap too, otherwise... i could live in Germany

After 4 and a half years in the FO seat, i was barely scraping in $300 a week, looking at another 5-7 years to upgrade to captain after over 15 years in the industry as a whole, i decided to stop wasting my time playing airplane pilot. i had financial goals in my mind which that career path was just unable to support at the time.

I have often wondered what a true shortage would do to pay scales.

on another note... I would wonder what was found on his computer, im sure it will be made public soon enough. My money is still on emails and messages to a failed love interest OR rejection of some form from his social group - a social group which he considered to be very important in defining himself.

but if this is the case, whoever he had a spat with - if any - has sure remained quiet about it

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I had to have about 3 times that just to get an interview here in the states.

I admit i too was surprised by the hours he had, but i had assumed this was relative to the demand in Europe for pilots.

Yes, I have read too that he had so few hours due to the shortage of pilots. This makes my blood boil - so countries that should know better compromise the safety of the public in an industry or profession because they are experiencing a shortage in skilled personnel and believe the answer lies in the lowering of standards of training in order to fill these positions.

What next: if it takes 8 years to qualify to become a Dr would Germany drop this to 4 years if there was a shortage of Dr's? This type of thinking is criminal and completely absurd.

This madness (pun intended) does not even stop there. Apparently this guy took extended time off of training to go under one and a half years of psychiatric treatment.

"Lufthansa Chief Executive Carsten Spohr told a news conference on Thursday that Lubitz had taken a break during his training six years ago, but did not explain why and said he had passed all tests to be fit to fly."

It would really surprise me if the families who have lost loved ones through this do not sue the pants off of Lufthansa.

Ask yourself this one simple question as a passenger about to board. You become aware that the pilot spent a few years undergoing psychiatric treatment and he is 28 years old with 600 odd flying hours. Would you still board?



http://ewn.co.za/2015/03/27/Germanwi...essive-episode

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I admit i too was surprised by the hours he had, but i had assumed this was relative to the demand in Europe for pilots. I wonder if their pay is crap too, otherwise... i could live in Germany

At Lufthansa they start with a yearly salary of 54.000€. With additional allowances this can get up to 73.000€
Some senior captains makes in excess of 250.000€ per year. But that's pretty extreme and I don''t know what the other airlines pay.
http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2014/02...n_4872272.html

[Oberon]

The problem is the demand for aircraft. Just kick up FR24 and see how many aircraft are in the air. It's the primary way for people to get anywhere further than a few hundred miles away. For business, for cargo, it's all done by aircraft because we want things, no, we need things right now.
You can't fly aircraft without trained pilots, but if you don't have enough trained pilots, what do you do? Reduce the number of aircraft, which will increase the price of tickets and drive customers to other companies (thanks capitalism) or reduce the amount of training needed in order to get more pilots.

Money talks, more than lives, more than health.

[Rockstar]

latest scuttlebutt indicates significant evidence has been found suggesting he was a Muslim convert.

[Tchocky]

Dare I ask for a source?

[Dowly]

Latest from BBC.

They (German prosecutors) said they had found torn-up sick notes in his homes, including one covering the day of the crash.

In their report, prosecutors in the city of Duesseldorf did not disclose the nature of Mr Lubitz's illness.

German media have said internal aviation authority documents suggest he suffered depression and required ongoing assessment.

Prosecutors said there was no evidence of a political or religious motive for his actions and no suicide note was found.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32087203

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Latest from BBC.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32087203

And everyone was assured both pilots were in the cockpit unconscience when the plane crashed too.


http://speisa.com/modules/articles/i...-to-islam.html


Like I said its scuttlebutt to the best of my knowledge nothing so far has been confirmed. Which makes me wonder how bbc.com can be so sure? Like Obe-wan said: "make of that what you will."

[Oberon]

Seems to center on 'Politically Incorrect' news:

http://www.pi-news.net/

(Note the link to the 'German Defence League' on their site)

According to this site anyway:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...Speed=noscript

Make of that what you will.

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You can't fly aircraft without trained pilots, but if you don't have enough trained pilots, what do you do? Reduce the number of aircraft, which will increase the price of tickets and drive customers to other companies (thanks capitalism) or reduce the amount of training needed in order to get more pilots.

There are certain professions where simple "economics of return" do not and should not even come into consideration.

In South Africa we experienced a huge shortage of medical doctors due to many of them leaving the country once it became a democratic state in the fullest sense. The same can be said for construction engineers, air traffic controllers, etc.

These professions, and many others, are directly linked to the immediate safety of the public. South Africa, faced with these immediate shortages and with now a huge demand of these services did not lessen the time required to become a co-pilot or pilot; lessen the time required to become a medical Dr; lessen the requirements that were needed from a construction engineer to ensure the safety of a high rise building in its construction - or a air traffic controller at anyone of its international airports juggling increasing and demanding air traffic.

What it did do to its credit (and there very few credits sadly), was to maintain the standards required and sought rather to import the needed skills required.

If I am flying on an airplane with my family or even not, I would not want or expect a cheaper ticket at the direct cost to my safety. If I held that view then I do not want to buy a car with an airbag, enhanced breaking system, safety features etc - rather let me save my pennies and buy that old banger from the second hand car lot with the bald tires to get me from A to B - and put mine and my loved ones safety into the hands of the gods.

[Von Tonner]

I am absolutely shell shocked at such a display of sheer naked utter arrogance from the CEO of Lufthansa.

While other obviously more responsible airlines are immediately introducing steps and procedures to counter such possible happenings - and I quote a few of them:

"Airlines including Norwegian Air Shuttle, Britain's easyJet, Air Canada, Air New Zealand and Air Berlin all said within hours that they had introduced a requirement that two crew members be in the cockpit at all times.

Canada said it would immediately impose such a rule on all its airlines while those that already had such rules in place, including Ryanair, rushed to reassure customers."

And: "In light of this unfortunate incident, SAA has decided to reassess the protocols it has in place," said SAA spokesperson Tlali Tlali.

"We will not hesitate to effect changes to these protocols should the reassessment identify areas of vulnerability. These protocols remain a critical ingredient for security, safety and peace of mind for our customers during their travel on our flights. "

BUT this is the response from Lufthansa:

Among the companies that did not announce such a policy change was Germanwings parent Lufthansa, whose CEO Carsten Spohr said he believed it was unnecessary.

"I don't see any need to change our procedures here," Spohr told journalists. "It was a one-off case. But we will look at it with the various experts at Lufthansa and the authorities. We shouldn't lose ourselves in short-term measures."

http://traveller24.news24.com/News/F...ocols-20150327

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

I am absolutely shell shocked at such a display of sheer naked utter arrogance from the CEO of Lufthansa.

Lufthansa has just joined the "2 people in the cockpit at all times" club.
And I think it's ok to first calm down and think about what to do rather then to do some knee jerk reaction.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

latest scuttlebutt indicates significant evidence has been found suggesting he was a Muslim convert.

Not one respectable German news source says anything about him being a convert.
There is a lot wrong with Islam these days so one should have enough to build arguments against it without having to make stuff up. It speaks volumes about the source.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Schroeder;2301358

Not one [I

respectable[/I] German news source says anything about him being a convert.
There is a lot wrong with Islam these days so one should have enough to build arguments against it without having to make stuff up. It speaks volumes about the source.

I don't trust news articles generally though-their first motive is to sell papers.

RGR that IMHO: had it been the case, some group would doubtless be claiming credit by now...I never thought there were disrespectable German news sources!

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Lufthansa has just joined the "2 people in the cockpit at all times" club.
And I think it's ok to first calm down and think about what to do rather then to do some knee jerk reaction.

"knee jerk reaction" - seriously Schroeder - it was the OBVIOUS and immediate response for any airliner to do given what happened to issue an immediate policy that there must be two personnel in the cockpit at any given time. Why make an issue of it?

Actually the real elephant in the room after this terrible tragedy and the complete nut this guy was is the following question: How many co-pilots are in the employ of Lufthansa with less than 600 flying hours.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

There are certain professions where simple "economics of return" do not and should not even come into consideration.

I'm not going to disagree with you, but people who make lots of money from ferrying passengers and cargo by aircraft might well do so.
Good to see that many are implementing the two man rule though (I honestly thought it was a worldwide thing until this incident). Once upon a time it would have been un-necessary because there would have been at least three people in the cockpit, but you don't see the Flight Engineer so much any more, I guess his position has been taken over by computers.