Russian military planes 'disrupted UK aviation' - Page 2

ikalugin · 01-31-15, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Fourth: The public inquest into the death of Alexander Litvenenko started this week.

Again?

Skybird · 01-31-15, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I think there are 3 reasons for that.
First is that Putin wants to show he's still there to both NATO and his own people.
Second they can clock the reaction time of NATO air defenses.
Third the bombers can have electronic reconnaissance equipment to have a look at Britain's coast or just to practice operating it in a "live environment".

The first is militarily irrelevant, and two and three: well, okay in regions of operational interest - but the Channel...?

The day when under wartime conditions Russian heavy bombers the size of these planes can reach the channel (without having overrolled continental Europe first and standing in division size in Rotterdam and Calais), will be the day I will vote for saving money and dismantle NATO, for then I would know that NATO could not be trusted to get even the most obvious tasks done.

ikalugin · 01-31-15, 06:49 AM

To go on a tangent, did the European defence procurement programs change with the recent events, as, if I remember it right, there was a movement in reduction of land forces.

Skybird · 01-31-15, 07:00 AM

The words to do so have been said, whether they will be followed by money, remaisn to be seen. Some Eastern Europeans have raised their defence budgets for sure.

The German forces are a shadow only of their former self (cold war comparison I mean, not WWII). I currently would have more trust in the Polish army, than in ours. Serious, I do not mean that as a joke.

ikalugin · 01-31-15, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The words to do so have been said, whether they will be followed by money, remaisn to be seen. Some Eastern Europeans have raised their defence budgets for sure.

The German forces are a shadow only of their former self (cold war comparison I mean, not WWII). I currently would have more trust in the Polish army, than in ours. Serious, I do not mean that as a joke.

Specifics would be welcome, as we appear to keep our rearmament program going despite the economical situation.

Jimbuna · 01-31-15, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I really wonder what should be demonstrated, trained, proven or tested by flights like this, into such locations. In case of a big war with Russia - heavy bombers trying to survive making it to the channel..? C'mon. In wartimes, they would be intercepted far, far away from 6 mile zones - they would get shot down as early and far away as possible. Maybe even already on the Russian side of the frontline.

The Channel is not the Eastern Baltic or the North Cape.

True that but they can carry the AS-15 Kent which has a range of 3000km meaning interceptions would need to be made in a timely fashion and a long way from home shores.

Jimbuna · 01-31-15, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

By UK Aviation, you mean the Buna Aeroplane collection right?

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Exactly, in order to get a die-cast Bear, he'll need a new cabinet which will be a disruption to the Buna Aeroplane collection.

Do they even do die-cast Tu-95s?

They sure do but not in my scale (1/72) or collection theme (Post WWII British).

http://www.diecastairplane.com/store/c/8422-TU-95.html

Skybird · 01-31-15, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

True that but they can carry the AS-15 Kent which has a range of 3000km meaning interceptions would need to be made in a timely fashion and a long way from home shores.

That is the point, there is no reason for sending heavy bombers that far into the focus of the enemy's air defence. When the Kent can be fired from 3000m away, why sending its launching platform into the Irish Sea or the Channel? If you want to disrupt shipping in the channel, you can do so by firing your Kents from even southwest of the Azores!

For tracking low flying incoming cruise missiles, different radars are used than those by which you track high flying big bombers.

It's all theatre. Schroeder's point number one probably is the most matching explanation. Boys talk about penis lengths, autocratic state leaders compare the length of their missile hulls instead.

And Putin by now imo has become a hunted by his own policies. He cannot stop it and change his course now anymore, even if he wants. Loss of face and credibility in his people's eyes would be far too dangerous for him. This is dangerous, for it means the confrontational policy of Russia by now has become a self-dynamic that can no longer be influenced by argument and reason, but follows its own, highly riskful logic.

Jimbuna · 01-31-15, 08:20 AM

The latter part of the above is what I find of most concern

ikalugin · 01-31-15, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

And Putin by now imo has become a hunted by his own policies. He cannot stop it and change his course now anymore, even if he wants. Loss of face and credibility in his people's eyes would be far too dangerous for him. This is dangerous, for it means the confrontational policy of Russia by now has become a self-dynamic that can no longer be influenced by argument and reason, but follows its own, highly riskful logic.

I think it is more about lack of mutually acceptable terms.

Oberon · 01-31-15, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Again?

It's the biggest espionage thing to happen in the UK since Mr Ricin umbrella

The other inquiries were standard affairs, but this one is a public one, announced after the events in the Ukraine...funny that, eh?

Political footballs and that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

LOL

They sure do but not in my scale (1/72) or collection theme (Post WWII British).

http://www.diecastairplane.com/store/c/8422-TU-95.html

Nice...but at that price I could probably buy the full sized version...

Betonov · 01-31-15, 08:57 AM

You all worry too much.
The Russians aren't coming.

Although, a rearnement in Europe would be good for the economy. More employment and domestic production

I always wanted to work in a weapons factory....

THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oberon · 01-31-15, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good film that.

Betonov · 01-31-15, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Good film that.

The one about a Russian submarine ??
I really should watch it one day.

Oberon · 01-31-15, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

The one about a Russian submarine ??
I really should watch it one day.

Definitely, it's funny.

01-31-15, 07:00 AM	#19
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,696 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The words to do so have been said, whether they will be followed by money, remaisn to be seen. Some Eastern Europeans have raised their defence budgets for sure. The German forces are a shadow only of their former self (cold war comparison I mean, not WWII). I currently would have more trust in the Polish army, than in ours. Serious, I do not mean that as a joke. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-31-15, 08:20 AM	#24
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The latter part of the above is what I find of most concern __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-31-15, 06:49 AM	#18
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	To go on a tangent, did the European defence procurement programs change with the recent events, as, if I remember it right, there was a movement in reduction of land forces.

01-31-15, 08:57 AM	#27
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	You all worry too much. The Russians aren't coming. Although, a rearnement in Europe would be good for the economy. More employment and domestic production I always wanted to work in a weapons factory.... THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!