Terrorist attack in Paris on French magazine

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I wish these threads would stop getting so screwed up.

Part of me wants the GT forum to be deleted, so we can focus on talking about submarines. That's why we're here, right?

Once, maybe, back when they were still making Silent Hunters, GT has always been screwed up though, it's gotten a bit more twisted now because everyone is entrenched in their respective positions and won't budge, so it just comes down to sniping, the odd personal attack and the occasional mass charge against the machine guns.

There is little new ideas to discuss, events that trigger discussions usually boil down to Muslims, the Economy, Obama, and guns, and the same old people come out with the same old links, the same old jokes, and the same old tirades of paragraphs, myself included. One could almost code a bot to conduct the whole thread before it's even posted. Occasionally a thread might not go down the traditional route, but these are exceptions to the rule rather than a trend.

[Cybermat47]

I just saw a great post from PewDiePie (the most subscribed person on YouTube).

Originally Posted by PewDiePie

My thoughts go out to the people of France tonight.
Hopefully one day we'll all realize that we live on the same planet.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Once, maybe, back when they were still making Silent Hunters,

So... we blame Ubisoft?

I doubt anyone will object

[MH]

I guess that since I do not believe in answering extremism with extremism or violence with violence that I am weak, socialist, communist, European, reasonophobic, Errr...have I missed any of the usual terms treated as derogatory around here? Gun-hating perhaps?

Ok... so what is your idea?
How do you think EU should deal with the issue?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

So... we blame Ubisoft?

I doubt anyone will object

I think we can work with that.

Originally Posted by MH

Ok... so what is your idea?
How do you think EU should deal with the issue?

Same way we've always dealt with terrorism, punish those who undertake it, be wary of those who profit from it, and help those who suffer from it.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Same way we've always dealt with terrorism, punish those who undertake it, be wary of those who profit from it, and help those who suffer from it.

Good ...I suppose that how it will be with some minor adjustments.

Here are some thoughts from Ha'aretz cartoonist....

Paris attack shows that the bad guys have won

Haaretz's cartoonist Amos Biderman is afraid after the attack on French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo that killed 12.


Let’s not try to whitewash things. The bad guys have won — those guys from the Islamic Jihad, Al-Qaida, the Islamic State, whatever you want to call them. They’ve beaten us big time in the battle for freedom of expression.
All of Europe is shaking and so is America. Now there is no cartoonist or publisher who would dare start up with them. They’re all trembling in fear. Personally, I’ve felt threatened ever since the storm over the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed in 2005. I don’t go near the subject. The ramifications are clear.
The French government had in the past asked the people at Charlie Hebdo to stop publishing illustrations that ignored the sensitivities of radical Islam. No similar requests were made regarding cartoons lampooning the rabbinate or the Vatican, and there certainly were such cartoons.
Islamic extremists in Europe trumped freedom of expression back when they slaughtered Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam over his documentary film about female genital mutilation among Muslim women in Holland. Against Salman Rushdie they issued a fatwa sentencing him to death because of his book “The Satanic Verses” and he was forced to hire personal bodyguards and go into hiding for many years.
Not long ago, I saw television reporter Zvi Yehezkeli walking around London in the company of a Muslim preacher, who was explaining, on camera, how lovely life would be in Britain under sharia law. Marriage to 12-year-old girls, cutting off hands, and decapitations – great fun. La dolce vita. Ah, but he forgot the most important thing – they will kill all the infidels. That’s exactly what they did to my French colleagues, whose only sin was to draw pictures. That’s what I call multiculturalism.
Everyone’s afraid, but there will always be those kamikazes, like the journalists at Charlie Hebdo. They are few and far between, and truly courageous. I’d been following their editions, and I knew it would end badly. It couldn’t have been otherwise. The French government also knew, and did nothing to stop it.
Now the leaders of France, Britain and Germany will speak, babble, and prattle. The bitter truth is that there isn’t much more they can do. The bad guys have already won.
Perhaps we should start studying sharia law.
Amos Biderman is a cartoonist at Haaretz.

[Rhodes]

The following picture is from a portuguese cartoonist, about the attacks!

He says that humour is a profoundly effective weapon against all that promote terror and tragedy and it will prevail against all evil that attacks liberty.

It is a core of the text he wrote with the cartoon.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Same way we've always dealt with terrorism, punish those who undertake it, be wary of those who profit from it, and help those who suffer from it.

And deport those that are filled with hate speech.
I don't mind Ahmed coming in with his wife and 3 children and then work as a janitor or engineer, sending his kids trough college to become the next generation of engineers and doctors.

But c'mon, we really need to send a lot of the bad eggs back home.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Betonov

But c'mon, we really need to send a lot of the bad eggs back home.

Or better yet, lock them up so they can't stir up trouble back home.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Or better yet, lock them up so they can't stir up trouble back home.

I hear China has a lot of rare earth deposits.
We supply the workforce and keep 3/4 of the ore

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I guess that since I do not believe in answering extremism with extremism or violence with violence that I am weak, socialist, communist, European, reasonophobic, Errr...have I missed any of the usual terms treated as derogatory around here? Gun-hating perhaps?
That's fine, I've spent just as long as Skybird defending my beliefs and trying, trying to teach tolerance, understanding and love to a crowd which doesn't believe in any of that. That's fine, if people want to live in fear and hated, and become as bitter and angry as the people they claim to be fighting, then I guess that is their choice. With any luck I'll be long dead before the consequences of such limited thought come into play.

Wasn't there a guy in the UK who once thought the same way? I guess his name was Chamberlain and we know how the story ended. Sometimes the peaceful way doesn't work as it requires your opponent to accept logic and reasoning. Both are lacking in hate filled ideologies and religions. Just waiting and appeasing doesn't always work.

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I wish these threads would stop getting so screwed up.

Part of me wants the GT forum to be deleted, so we can focus on talking about submarines. That's why we're here, right?

That's why we have submarine simulation forums and a separated GT. You don't like GT you stay out of it and discuss submarines in the submarine forums. No GT topics there.

Originally Posted by Betonov

And deport those that are filled with hate speech.
I don't mind Ahmed coming in with his wife and 3 children and then work as a janitor or engineer, sending his kids trough college to become the next generation of engineers and doctors.

But c'mon, we really need to send a lot of the bad eggs back home.

I fully agree with your post.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

That's why we have submarine simulation forums and a separated GT. You don't like GT you stay out of it and discuss submarines in the submarine forums. No GT topics there.

Dammit guys, I told you to stop using logic

[Tchocky]

Suspects spotted in northern France, apparently.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30721677

Hope they're not coming my way

[Skybird]

A German commentator rightfully remarked this: that Europe only has overcome and fought down censorship and oppression of free thought and opinion, to import it once again, needlessly, from the outside. He also reminds of the fact that already since years and decades many courageous writers and publicists iin the West live in fear and hiding due to having offended the big religion that claims that it must be given special rights and treatments and exclusions from the general law. Hundreds and thousands of such brave people are out there, and still refuse to fall silent, while all too often not just being ignored by the public, but even being ridiculed and demonized by those stupids whose rights and freedoms they defend. Around the globe several editors and publishers of Rushdie's Satanic Verses were assaulted, sometimes injured, even killed. Especially saddening it is to see with what vigor any demand for a critical analysis of the failed integration of Muslim migrants and the meaning of that disaster is being suppressed by the political establishments responsible for having started the needless import of this problem, which mainly is the political left, but not only. The debate about Islam in the West is based on sill,y catchphrases, and almost complete lack of knowledge about its real ideology, its fundament int eh written canon, and its history by which it added truth to the archaic goals of the ideology. One does not deal with Islam as what it is, but what one dreams it to be, if only... if only... reality would not come in its way so often. One has opened door and gate for the beast, and now it is in house and one cannot control it and has to constantly improvise workarounds not to meet it, not to disturb it, not to annoy it. Meanwhile, Jews in many countries including Sweden, Germany, Nethelands, France, are declared subjects of free hunts by Arab and Muslim mobs, and newslines about another Jewish couple here, a Rabbi there being beaten up on the streets do not even cause a medial uproar anymore. Its just another of those singular events, isn't it - go on, nothing to see, nothing to watch out for, mind your own business. The fleeing of Jews from several European countries currently is on the highest peak since WWII.

Europe has bitten off a much bigger chunk of hostile ideology than it can chew and digest. And it will cost it dearly.

Of course, eurocrats will continue to deny that as well. Already now the cost to openly confront Islam instead of endlessly appeasing it with ever more special deals agreed for its demands, is seen by many as too high.

It can only become worse if this attitude does not change.

What angers me personally a lot, also is this: that all those well-meaning good-doers trying to be so kind and thoughtful about Islamic sentiments, betray and ignore all those many thousands of people from muslim countries that were born as Muslim property, suffered miserably from that, and took the great risk of fleeing from there, often under biggest costs and losses in family relations and friendships, careers and material wealth, to live in freedom here in bigmouthed Europe - only to see this Europe since years and years falling silent about their persecutors taking more and more land and influence in this place, too, and being once again exposed to the threat they tried to escape from. I am not talking about Syrian wear efugees, but family dramas of individuals and couples claiming the right to decide themselves about whom they marry and what treatment by their tyrannic family they accept or not, individuals that want to break with Islam, and for their apostacy are being threatened with death, and then the many young women for the most who are in danger to be murdered by their brothers because the father claimed their unwillingness to follow his commands whom to marry and how to live, is violating his precious honour he thinks he holds in his tiny testicles. This is so cowardish, cynical and underhanded a treason by Westerners that it really makes my blood boil, because I knew several such people, most of them Iranians.

Currently, Europe mourns, and sheds tears, and holds motivating speeches. Now that there is not any risk at all involved and no courage needed to hold up a sign in a crowd reading "I am Charlie", people follow the popular trends and follow the rite that is expected of them. Betroffenheitskultur, the German word would be. But I am not like that. I am not sad, and I do not cry - I am angry, and I want to see Europeans finally setting up a fight to Islam - finally. Those people now flocking through the streets, the same people that just a day before maybe still said - and already now say again - that one has to see the good in Islam as well and that it all is relative and a question of interpretation, I spit them my despise on their feet, and all they can get in applaus from me for their civilian "courage" by which they "mark a sign", is a slap in their stupid, ignorant face. They should be lambs, not humans, hopping on a meadow and in time being led to the slaughterhouse to contribute to the meal of somebody else.

Europe mourns. It would be more helpful if it would clearly express signs of enragement, and start to dictate Islam its conditions for being condoned in the West. Islam is no part of the Christian-influenced Western world. It always has been its bitter enemy which it repeatedly attacked and tried to submit. Muslim armies stood ion the heart of France, and at Vienna. Their claim back then is the same goal that megalomaniac insanes like Erdoghan eye today. But europeans cry instead of shouting out their anger, and willingness to fight. Poor, sweet little lambs.

Those cartoonists murdered, understood that, and many of those people living in hiding from Islam currently, those many many thousands in all of Europe, understand that as well. That now people who become passionate when it is about defending Islam, say how concerned they feel and how sad it is, to me is nothing else but lacking honesty to themselves, and underhanded hypocrisy. I don't applaud their display of sadness - I want to spank them.

Stop crying, you weak victims. Victim-status does not enoble you, and it does not save your lives, nor does it make those being murdered alive again. Start fighting. It all starts with determination to mark that red line in the sand and tell Islam any any Muslims challenging it: not one further step, or we will give you hell to live in on this our continent. We are the rulers of this place not you. Our will is law in our homes, not yours. Accept that, or leave. We owe your totalitarian, racist, supremacist, intolerant, hate-dripping, underhanded, inconsistent, women-suppressing primitive archaic ideology NOTHING.

That includes fighting your own governments who impose this unfolding disaster onto you, against what I dare to declare the majorty of the people. Most people do not want this massive Muslim migration, and they do not want Islam being given special treatment again and again. They just do not care or do not dare to speak out. The threat of witch hunts that lobbies, media and politicans immediately would launch against them, has done its work. We see it currently happening in Germany again. The intimidation has been deeply internalised. This has to be understood - and then overcome. I did the door-to-door-walking job myself longer time ago, I still recall how limited the willingness to get engaged was in most people, even if they were sympathic with our intentions. So nobody tell me anything on that. If I could do that, and often start fights in arguments with foreigners to challenge their distorted views of Islamic ideology, and got engaged in assisting people struggling to escape Islam, then you and all others can do something like that, too. Hiding in a crowd and using that safety to hold up a sign "I am Charlie", may make you feel comfortable and satisfied with yourself, but it does nothing. Your courage shows when you set up challenges under conditions that are against you. Your character shows when you resist with the odds against you. Running with the mob is easy. Resisting the direction the stream of cattle moves to - that is the trick.

Bringing Islam into the West and anchoring it here, is the work of a minority, and influential and noisy minority, but still: a minority. It is not the whole people.

[STEED]

Not 10 days into the new year, evil is rampant and will get worst.