Terrorist attack in Paris on French magazine

[August]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

As far as I know the technical side is there already, but it is not feasable money wise so far (judging from a Russian project of providing 24/7 constant total automatic surveillance in Moscow)

Not knowing the Russian project I cannot say but in general the bigger or more intricate the area the more difficult it is to keep under constant active surveillance.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

As far as I know the technical side is there already, but it is not feasable money wise so far (judging from a Russian project of providing 24/7 constant total automatic surveillance in Moscow)

One aspect of surveillance that does produce results is Prism. As Oberon pointed out, it does come at a price, but I imagine they are able to intercept a lot of important data before an attack occurs.

[Skybird]

Comment from the Times:

Decency towards Muslims – laced with a certain fear – has made Britain reluctant to satirise their religion openly

Yesterday in Paris we in the west crossed a boundary that cannot be recrossed. For the first time since the defeat of fascism a group of citizens were massacred because of what they had drawn, said and published…

In the week when thousands of Germans in Dresden and elsewhere marched again in vague opposition to the Muslim presence among them, the Charlie Hebdo massacre seems like a gigantic placard held above them reading: “See? Told you!” This, a buoyant Marine Le Pen will remind French people, is what you get. And even some liberals who loathe the National Front will agree, in sadness.

The problem is, you may think, that even though the vast majority of Muslims would no more kill a cartoonist than a Methodist would, they still don’t quite get our commitment to freedom of speech. When they complain about insults and say they’re angry about this or that being published and want it banned, then they create the permissive fluid in which the violent zealot swims.

So we need to be clear, for everyone’s sake, and at the moment we are anything but. This is the deal for living together. The same tolerance that allows Muslims or Methodists freedom to practise and espouse their religion is the same tolerance that allows their religion or any aspect of it to be depicted, criticised or even ridiculed. Take away one part of the deal and the other part falls too. You live here, that’s what you agree to. You don'T like it, go somewhere else.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinio...cle4316868.ece

Its not the first time since WWII, however, that people in the West get murdered by Islamic terrorists for what they had written, said or turned into a film. The author forgot to think about Dutch Theo van Gogh, or the Danish cartoon writer who almost fell victim to a Muslim axe-swinger, and was so intimidated that he now has publicly apologised for his unforgivable deed. Also, the violent antisemitism to be seen growing in countries like France, Netherlands, and Sweden, is very strongly and for the main projected from Arab migrants and Muslims, not Neonazis. That Jews get hunted and beaten up on Western streets, has become a sad routine since years already.

And some 15 years ago I helped in a local grassroot movement to prevent the enlargment of a local mosque over here that was tried to be enforced by means of betrayal and fraud. We tried to mobilise the local residents by going from door to door, and filded charges for fraud at court, the resulting court battle was won by us. The chairman of our group was beaten up on open street, at daytime, his wife got harassed and beaten, later they got death threats by mail. They have left the city long time ago. Me, I received a written death sentence in my papermail, too.

But any rumours that I complied with it, are strongly exaggerated.

The comment in the Times is good. Its just not fully up to date.

[Cybermat47]

I think when this sort of debate comes up about Islam, people forget something vital: a lot of Muslims don't actually follow Islam to the letter.

After all, Islam is a violent religion, but a lot of Muslims aren't violent people. If terrorists represented the majority of Muslims, wouldn't every Muslim be trying to kill as many non-Muslims as possible?

This is true of a lot of religions. Christianity says that Homosexuality is an abomination, yet a lot of Christians support Gay equality. And I'd say that the people who believe in Islam and are Gay also support Gay equality.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Yes, there is a problem, the problem is radical Islam.
Now either you kill 1.8b people

Works for me! Plus it should be earth friendly, much less natural resources needed for a reduced population. I don't think you'd have to kill "all" of them to get them to start playing the game by the rules though. Japan only took two atom bombs, and now we are best of friends(sorta). Time to go old school.

[Otto Harkaman]

I'm sure as these things tend to go that its going to get much worse before it gets any better.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Works for me! Plus it should be earth friendly, much less natural resources needed for a reduced population. I don't think you'd have to kill "all" of them to get them to start playing the game by the rules though. Japan only took two atom bombs, and now we are best of friends(sorta). Time to go old school.

(I assume this is permitted because 'dafuq' isn't censored by the autocensor software.)

[MH]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Unfortunately, we seem to be...or at least, on GT, unable to ask what that question is without loading it with a tone which contains what we think to be the answer.
Yes, there is a problem, the problem is radical Islam.
Now either you kill 1.8b people, or you work to keep the balance between the number of extremists and the number of non-extremists in the way you want it. That's about the long and the short of it really. It doesn't mean we need to bend to their every whim, but it also doesn't mean that we need to treat them all as guilty until proven innocent.

The issue is not final solution , please don't jump to extreme here.
It is about the apologetic narrative people are fed up with as it seem.
Look at the Stockholm Syndrome thread and so on...maybe this is exactly the reason why many vote UKIP you fear so much.

When it comes to extremism you should realize that for religious or brought up in ME tradition un -Muslims often going to extremism is mentally easer than embracing western liberal values.
It is closer to home...so don't blame yourself.
Europe has added another problem to the list and is learning to to deal with it....

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Unfortunately, we seem to be...or at least, on GT, unable to ask what that question is without loading it with a tone which contains what we think to be the answer.
Yes, there is a problem, the problem is radical Islam.
Now either you kill 1.8b people, or you work to keep the balance between the number of extremists and the number of non-extremists in the way you want it. That's about the long and the short of it really. It doesn't mean we need to bend to their every whim, but it also doesn't mean that we need to treat them all as guilty until proven innocent.

That's the problem, radical and so called moderates still have much in common and it's laughable that we refer to them as moderates, because the majority of moderates still support a religion that is biased towards gays, women, free speech, apostasy, etc....The larger Islam gets the more radical groups we get. We're too scared to face Islam and walk on our tiptoes out of fear. We treat no other religion like this....because we fear moderates will go radical. The fact we fear so much moderates will go radical only proves how moderate they are....not so much.

Yes, it will take Islam to reform Islam itself, but that isn't happening. Europe has all but bowed to Allah to appease moderate and radical alike and got nothing but mass numbers of radicals they will have to deal with.

Because Islam won't deal with it's issues within itself, the world continues to piecemeal wars every decade, not solving much, because we give up. We'll have many more big acts or terror coming and more wars because no one wants to deal with Islam....

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

A terrible senseless act of barbarism....I was especially moved when I saw the police officer who had been wounded being executed with a single shot to the head whilst holding his hands up in surrender

Slovene media just wrote, that the murdered policeman was a muslim

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Works for me! Plus it should be earth friendly, much less natural resources needed for a reduced population. I don't think you'd have to kill "all" of them to get them to start playing the game by the rules though. Japan only took two atom bombs, and now we are best of friends(sorta). Time to go old school.

I believe that Tribesman was brigged a few weeks back for suggesting that there were members of this board who would support the wholesale massacre of women and children.
Well, there's one of them.

I guess that since I do not believe in answering extremism with extremism or violence with violence that I am weak, socialist, communist, European, reasonophobic, Errr...have I missed any of the usual terms treated as derogatory around here? Gun-hating perhaps?
That's fine, I've spent just as long as Skybird defending my beliefs and trying, trying to teach tolerance, understanding and love to a crowd which doesn't believe in any of that. That's fine, if people want to live in fear and hated, and become as bitter and angry as the people they claim to be fighting, then I guess that is their choice. With any luck I'll be long dead before the consequences of such limited thought come into play.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Slovene media just wrote, that the murdered policeman was a muslim

In before suggestions of collusion.

[Cybermat47]

I wish these threads would stop getting so screwed up.

Part of me wants the GT forum to be deleted, so we can focus on talking about submarines. That's why we're here, right?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I wish these threads would stop getting so screwed up.

Part of me wants the GT forum to be deleted, so we can focus on talking about submarines. That's why we're here, right?

All is well....
Just open thread about submarines No?

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by MH

All is well....
Just open thread about submarines No?

...

Stop using logic