Gun Control thread (merged many)

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Well said. You've mentioned this 30,000 number a few times, perhaps we need to examine it. Of those 30,000 gun related deaths, 2/3 of those deaths are suicides. We both know that suicide is attainable by many methods other than guns; and in general, suicides only kill the person using the gun, so yours and my safety is not greatly affected by this portion of gun related deaths.

In 2012, there were approximately 8,896 homicides by guns, which is a lot more than anyone would like to see. In a population of 320 million, that means we have a 0.00003 chance of being shot and killed. What I would like to know (couldn't find it anywhere) is the breakdown of that 8,896 number by people killed in the commission of a crime vs killed by someone they know, crime of passion, etc. And it bears pointing out, of those 8,896 gun related deaths, don't you think many of them would have been carried out with a knife, club, or other weapons of force? Saying there are 9000 gun deaths does not focus on the fact that there were 9000 instances of violent crime, guns are just part of it.

MH said that firearms are too easy to obtain, and I agree; firearms are way too easy to get, just like driver's licenses and voting. What is the solution? Stricter laws regarding sales? Ok. Registering and cataloging weapons? I would be in for that, although I know many gun owners would fight it. Longer prison sentences for people found in possession of a firearm illegally? Many criticize the US for having the largest prison population, but I say screw 'em, we need more people in prison. When the day comes that gangs and street crime is as rare here as it is in Japan and Europe, then we have too many criminals on the wrong side of the bars. Like that guy in Australia, he had been arrested several times and was on bail for murdering his wife--he should have never been released until after the trial. And Eric Garner in NY, with all his arrests, he was still walking the streets, resisting arrest, and it cost him his life.

Guns are part of the problem, but the bigger issue is the entitlement class that the Democrats have created and the failure of the war on poverty. When I was in high school, it was typical to see several student's pickup trucks with gun racks, with .22 and shotguns, in the parking lot. It's a small, concentrated, disfunctional part of our society that causes the majority of gun crimes, and it's that part of our society that needs fixing.

PS: Not sure about your calculations but 320,000,000 / 32,000 = 0.00010, right?

I only just spotted this...well, that's a lie, I noticed it but was more drawn towards the Dowly/August/Tribesman discussion above and below it when August started accusing me of having ulterior motives.

Neal, this is very well put, and equally well put by Schroeder before you. I'm not so sure about the Democrats being solely behind the entitlement class, but equally I'm not quite so well up on that part of US society as to be able to make any form of judgement. However, what you say about stricter gun licensing, making it harder to purchase a gun and tougher sentences for illegal gun ownership, these are good and fair points, but equally you are pretty much spot on in that they would not be likely to fly since they would be shot down by the 'tyrannical government' crowd.
This clip from Jon Stewarts show makes some, pointed thoughts on the situation:

Is prison the answer? Heck, no one can fully answer that, we've been having that argument in the UK for years, and there's evidence for either side of it. But certainly there needs to be perhaps a focus on prevention of reoccuring crime, and multi-pronged approach...and not just in the US, but globally in the modern world to be honest. Eliminate poverty, make employment a more rewarding endeavour (but in a manner which does not punish those who are unable to be employed, such as the disabled) and deal harsher sentences on criminal activity...and perhaps part the Nile while you're at it... But certainly I think, in my opinion at least, that's the direction that modern society and governments should be heading...but that requires both sides of the socio-economic spectrum to work together, those at the bottom to work up, and those at the top to help down. Not for either side to just expect the other side to do all the leg work which is around about where we are now.
I've often been called a socialist...and I guess it's true, in European terms I'm not that left wing, in American terms I'm probably near Karl Marx. I just think that if everyone had a level playing field then things like crime might reduce...obviously you're not going to eliminate crime, that's impossible, but addressing the root cause of some crimes might help reduce it whilst avoiding having to turn entire states into prisons (but I suppose what else are you going to do with Alabama? ), but it's a pretty herculean task that I don't think any government would want to touch with a barge pole.