Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by MH

Enough with this SS mantra.

Well those helmets with the runes on it were also shown in TV, but very shortly, and were then quickly linked to ... east-ukrainian 'partisans' (!) by some ZDF anchorman. When someone protested, the show was just switched off. Good old neutral media

Yes there are right wingers and nazis in Ukraine

Yep there are. And some of those have been put in place by the new president, some as a personal garde, for him.
Of course Russia is not without guilt and uses its own propaganda, but the way the whole thing is handled in the local press and media is hilarious !

The putsch in Ukraine happened due to dissatisfaction to prolonged corruption, right, only the new prsident does not look any better in that respect than the old president, minus the ridiculous villa of the older.

And giving the western ukrainian people some credit, yes and agreed.
But also cut Russia some slack. Putin is a reasonable man, but he is treated like a pariah and no one speaks to him. The russian people see this as the EU sees it. The next president may be not so reasonable, but we have no one else than ourselves to blame, then.

Greetings,
Catfish

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Oberon

According to that article this took place after the suggestion of an economic deal between Russia and the US failed to take place. Not suggesting that it was a direct result but it certainly can't have helped.
I wonder if Gorbachev had managed to get a deal with the US in a manner similar to that described in that article whether he would have managed to cling on to power a bit longer and ride through a more structured dissolution of the USSR. That being said, Yeltsin would still have worked to undermine him, but he might have been able to have pacified the hardliners a little with some economic relief...although it's always hard to tell what the hardliners would go for, they were particularly in denial in those last days of the USSR.

Gorbachev failed badly on the external policy arena. For example - if I remember it right he was offered essentially free money by the West Germans to assist in the unification of Germany, but he didn't take it. He took the expensive loans (as Soviet credit rating was bad).

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by MH

What if Russia wants to be an enemy for the same reason you think west wants to be an enemy.
Look at what is going on in Russia ... state controlled media , economy , old time rhetoric and so on...Turkey
Old timer has took over.

Russia want slice of pie yet the slice doesn't want it , so Russia does what it does in Ukraine and blame CIA for mind controlling.

Have you ever accessed the Echo of Moscow (radio station)?

For the reference it is indirectly controlled by the State (State->Gazprom->Gazprom Media->Echo of Moscow). The issue I am pointing out is that if a State owned company controls a media outlet it is not necessary spewing out pro Goverment propaganda.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by MH

The putsch in Ukraine happened due to dissatisfaction to prolonged corruption.
Give some credit to the people as well ... people may lose the patience in particular when seeing the NATO members courtiers bordering with Ukraine improving while their own country regressing into filth.
Not everything is about CIA mind controlling... comm..on CIA cant even get reliable intelligence by torture....

If the role reversed Putin would be installing the missile defense where ever he can....right now he is at the wrong side of stick and plays this insulted no bull**** we will show them yet politician part.

Really? Considering that Yanukovich (and his party) were going out of the office in the next elections? Considering that they have (after the events) elected just another set of corrupt politicians (a different Oligarh clan, but still and Oligarh clan)?

Nothing has changed for the better in the Ukraine in the recent year, not has there been any measures taken (that I am aware of) to improve the situation.

[MH]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Nothing has changed for the better in the Ukraine in the recent year, not has there been any measures taken (that I am aware of) to improve the situation.

I don't know.
We will wait and see.

It is too early to judge the performance of current Ukrainian government.
Even if Ukrainians get rid of corruption and will work hard to rebuild the country it will take probably 20 years of development so one year with this mess still hanging over is irrelevant.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by MH

I don't know.
We will wait and see.

It is too early to judge the performance of current Ukrainian government.
Even if Ukrainians get rid of corruption and will work hard to rebuild the country it will take probably 20 years of development so one year with this mess still hanging over is irrelevant.

It is too early to make a final judgement indeed, however they are not doing any actions consistent with improving the situation.

Morever this does appear to be yet another repetition of the previous Maidan events (the so called Orange revolution - which resulted in Yanukovich being elected in the first place).

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The manouvers in my view had a clear focus on possible logistical support for and defence of the Russian enclave at Kaliningrad.



It makes plenty of military sense to practice that in times of growing tensions. In case of a hot war I think Russia would try to hold it, due to its location that makes it ideal to serve as a spearhead from which to spread a radar and SAM umbrella deep into NATO territory - the same what Washington wanted to do with the Crimean.

Could very well be. I am sure that this exercise was to train for a future invasion of Gotland.(Said by many swedish strategic person)

They have said that for Russia Gotland is the most impotant area in the baltic sea.

I'm no expert in that area, so maybe it is true or not.

Markus

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by mapuc

They have said that for Russia Gotland is the most impotant area in the baltic sea.

You can get pills for that.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You can get pills for that.

The blue or the red ?

Edit make search for Russia, Gotland and strategic importance

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The blue or the red ?

Edit make search for Russia, Gotland and strategic importance

Blue at the moment...red later?

[Betonov]

But this mission (loved the intro) was played in northern Norway, Gotland is east of Stockholm (about) ????

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

But this mission (loved the intro) was played in northern Norway, Gotland is east of Stockholm (about) ????

Hush! (Me too And Mission two and fifteen )

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Hush! (Me too And Mission two and fifteen )

The entire game was awesome !!!!!!
I only hated that US mission right after the nuke (cronologically)

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Betonov

The entire game was awesome !!!!!!
I only hated that US mission right after the nuke (cronologically)

Yeah, that one was a bit of a pain in the arse.

[BossMark]

Putin: It's too early to decide if I will run for re-election in 2018.

But not too early to decide the results.