Question on Silent 3ditor (S3D)

Alfred Keitzer · 09-06-14, 07:32 PM

I can see all the basic components objects in the ..\data\Library\*.DAT files just fine using S3D.

Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? Displaying a harbor DAT file node, all I see are a few data points. Any way to link the "placement" objects back to the library so one can view the harbor in 3D?

Ahnenerbe · 09-06-14, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred Keitzer

I can see all the basic components objects in the ..\data\Library\*.DAT files just fine using S3D.

Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? Displaying a harbor DAT file node, all I see are a few data points. Any way to link the "placement" objects back to the library so one can view the harbor in 3D?

Alfred Keitzer · 09-06-14, 08:28 PM

Yes, I can see all the basic components objects in the Library DAT files -- am aware of the center on object button.

What I'm talking about are the "Locations" DAT files (..\data\terrain\Locations\*.DAT) that define an entire harbor. I want to be able to view the entire harbor in 3D as defined by these DAT files, but the "Location" DAT files are templates referencing the placement of Library DAT objects; not the objects themselves. Hence I cannot see the entire harbor in S3D -- most likely because S3D does not have a reference back to the location of the object DAT files in ..\data\Library.

I was wondering if there is a way to view an entire harbor as defined in the "Locations" DAT files using S3D or even some other tool. Obviously, whoever built these harbors had to have reference back to the Library DAT objects and had to be able to SEE what they were building in order to create the "Location" DAT files that define complete harbors.

Bottom line is I'm looking to take an existing harbor and modify it to create new harbors rather than starting from scratch.

Ahnenerbe · 09-07-14, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred Keitzer

Yes, I can see all the basic components objects in the Library DAT files -- am aware of the center on object button.

What I'm talking about are the "Locations" DAT files (..\data\terrain\Locations\*.DAT) that define an entire harbor. I want to be able to view the entire harbor in 3D as defined by these DAT files, but the "Location" DAT files are templates referencing the placement of Library DAT objects; not the objects themselves. Hence I cannot see the entire harbor in S3D -- most likely because S3D does not have a reference back to the location of the object DAT files in ..\data\Library.

I was wondering if there is a way to view an entire harbor as defined in the "Locations" DAT files using S3D or even some other tool. Obviously, whoever built these harbors had to have reference back to the Library DAT objects and had to be able to SEE what they were building in order to create the "Location" DAT files that define complete harbors.

Bottom line is I'm looking to take an existing harbor and modify it to create new harbors rather than starting from scratch.

Other ways to view the ready-Ports and Harbours I do not know, just how to make all the points, and then launching the game to test what he did. Maybe some secrets and there, but I do not know. And the creation of facilities at ports and their location in the dat file is written to a certain port in the folder data / Terrain / Locations, where the objects are linked by id and Label files from the Library, but the advice here and I can not give, how to see where exactly I possess the object. Besides all this, in Locations.cfg must be specified geographical coordinates of the ports themselves with a specific file or multiple port you wish to use from my Locations. In addition, if it is a base, it is necessary to prescribe and campaign_LND.mis, it does not matter, it has its own database, allies or the enemy, you need to specify the time of entry into the war and out of her. In general, something like that ......
Good Luck!
++ Ahnenerbe ++

Alfred Keitzer · 09-08-14, 05:40 PM

My interest is in building a more accurate Lorient base, if one does not already exist, using the available objects of the SH3 DAT Library and then positioning that base in the correct location.

I am aware that:
(a) Harbor objects are stored in DAT files located in the ..\data\Library directory
(b) Bases are built using template DAT files located in the ..\data\terrain\Locations directory, which actually reference objects in the "Library" DAT files.
(c) Base placement is based on the Campaign_LND.mis file in ..\data\Campaigns\Campaign directory

The main steps I am interested in is how one uses tools, and which tools, to get from (a) to (b).Things like:

(a) Must all the objects you want to use to build a harbor be extracted from the Library DAT files?
(b) Best tool to VISUALLY build a base using the Library DAT objects?
(c) Once you have your base built in step (b), how does one take the component parts that make up the base and implement (reference) them in a "Locations" template DAT file?This seems like the hardest part because you are not using the objects directly, but referencing them with template "placement" commands.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff-Groves · 09-11-14, 03:44 PM

I can answer most of if not all of your questions. There was 1 Harbor Editor I have ever seen. That was by ref and only an Alpha and all source code has since been lost.
However, there is a way to re-work Harbors once I finish some stuff.
All programs that export 3D objects suffer from not takeing the Parent/Child position into account.
Only Pack3D can export all 3d objects in mass.
No program can export location dats and connect the objects referenced in them.
Nearing the 10 years since release? I find it amazing that it's not been cured even to this date.
We have one recourse. Decompile Pack3D, re-write the code, and create a new version of Pack3D to address the issues.
It would require a 3D program to view/adjust the exported files yes.
I may get brigged or worse but I did try to contact Mods.

Jeff-Groves · 09-13-14, 05:27 PM

We have the decompiled Pack3d now to work with.
Several issues may be raised as to why I decided to go this route.
1.
With release of S3D there was a dumbing down of creative modders IF S3D could not address the issues.
2.
I'm not ready to re-invent the 'wheel'. I don't have the heart nor the time to invest. I've seen what that has cost others and nearly suffered it myself.
3.
I have great respect for a Modder that goes beyound what available Tools offer. IF a way to actually view Locations dats and work the Tools I'll suggest is not good enuff? I have no problem walking away. I hate lazy people that want a simple solution.
4.
If you want anything better then I'll offer? Let me know now. I'm a known Richard and will go work on my Air Guns.

Anvart · 09-15-14, 08:01 AM

Hi, Jeff.
Did you decide write your real nickname?
I hope I'm not wrong... yes, I'm not wrong ... your unique rhetorical style.
Good luck.

P.S. IIRC, in Pack3D package there are the source files (java)... and, perhaps, decompilation would not be required... try look in RAR (JAR).

Jeff-Groves · 09-15-14, 03:02 PM

The files you refer to are only the Pack3D 1 files.
We both know there's better code to work with by decompiling all the versions.

If I knew Delphi better? I'd not mess with java.

Anvart · 09-16-14, 05:22 AM

"Delphi better?"
RAD Delphi/C++ Builder are interesting only thanks to large library of visual components ... I think.
...
C/C++/C# - old reliable friends...

...
Using the WinRAR just unpack from Pack3D.jar the files: *.java (source) and * .class (compiled)...
*** This tip just in case I don't understand you correctly. ***

Jeff-Groves · 09-16-14, 05:25 PM

Use DJ Java Decompiler.
You can decompile even the .class files.

Delphi is what a few Tools ref gave me source code for.
Problem is he adjusted some components that I don't have the knowledge to duplicate right now.

Anvart · 09-16-14, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Use DJ Java Decompiler.
You can decompile even the .class files.

...

I have it.

But in this case WinRAR is sufficient tool.
When I've fixed an annoying bug, I've changed the source code in *.java file and then compiled the modified file as *.class.

**********************************************

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred Keitzer

...
Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? ...

Unfortunately there are no tools for your task...
You can only get approximate imagination of the harbor. Need, in the file of location (for example Alexandria.dat), to replace the placement-nodes onto real 3D objects from HarborKit library. The ID and coordinates of 3D objects are specified in the Placement Controllers. Then you can view the modified *.dat file in S3D... but without the landscape... I think.

Jeff-Groves · 09-17-14, 04:44 PM

Alex,
Can you hook me up with someone that knows Delphi?
I have source from ref that could be used to give a visual and adjustable editor.

Anvart · 09-17-14, 08:35 PM

Sorry, Jeff, i did not like pascal never... and I haven't friends who know object pascal.

Jeff-Groves · 09-18-14, 01:43 PM

One could use Noesis to create a viewer/exporter if good in Python.
There was a GR2 exporter done in Noesis for SWTOR.
They changed the format then. Some Crazy Guys changed the Plugin code for Noesis to adapt.

Sansal's Java code can be changed to do what you suggested Alex.
Read the Location dat files, exchange the Positioning data for the actual 3D stuff to create a new dat that S3D could then view.

Once changed in S3D? Reverse the process for import with the modified code.
We change 3D objects back to positional data.

Or one could start from scratch in C++ and just do a quick converter kind of like the GR2 thing some Nut Job did awhile back.

09-06-14, 07:32 PM	#1
Alfred Keitzer Kapitän zur See Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 93 Downloads: 264 Uploads: 0	Question on Silent 3ditor (S3D) I can see all the basic components objects in the ..\data\Library\*.DAT files just fine using S3D. Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? Displaying a harbor DAT file node, all I see are a few data points. Any way to link the "placement" objects back to the library so one can view the harbor in 3D?

09-11-14, 03:44 PM	#6
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	I can answer most of if not all of your questions. There was 1 Harbor Editor I have ever seen. That was by ref and only an Alpha and all source code has since been lost. However, there is a way to re-work Harbors once I finish some stuff. All programs that export 3D objects suffer from not takeing the Parent/Child position into account. Only Pack3D can export all 3d objects in mass. No program can export location dats and connect the objects referenced in them. Nearing the 10 years since release? I find it amazing that it's not been cured even to this date. We have one recourse. Decompile Pack3D, re-write the code, and create a new version of Pack3D to address the issues. It would require a 3D program to view/adjust the exported files yes. I may get brigged or worse but I did try to contact Mods. Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 09-11-14 at 05:37 PM.

09-15-14, 08:01 AM	#8
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	Hi, Jeff. Did you decide write your real nickname? I hope I'm not wrong... yes, I'm not wrong ... your unique rhetorical style. Good luck. P.S. IIRC, in Pack3D package there are the source files (java)... and, perhaps, decompilation would not be required... try look in RAR (JAR). __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"... Last edited by Anvart; 09-16-14 at 05:26 AM.

09-16-14, 05:22 AM	#10
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	"Delphi better?" RAD Delphi/C++ Builder are interesting only thanks to large library of visual components ... I think. ... C/C++/C# - old reliable friends... ... Using the WinRAR just unpack from Pack3D.jar the files: .java (source) and .class (compiled)... * This tip just in case I don't understand you correctly. * __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"... Last edited by Anvart; 09-16-14 at 05:50 AM.

09-17-14, 08:35 PM	#14
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	Sorry, Jeff, i did not like pascal never... and I haven't friends who know object pascal. __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"...

09-06-14, 08:28 PM	#3
Alfred Keitzer Kapitän zur See Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 93 Downloads: 264 Uploads: 0	Yes, I can see all the basic components objects in the Library DAT files -- am aware of the center on object button. What I'm talking about are the "Locations" DAT files (..\data\terrain\Locations\.DAT) that define an entire harbor. I want to be able to view the entire harbor in 3D as defined by these DAT files, but the "Location" DAT files are templates referencing the placement of Library DAT objects; not the objects themselves. Hence I cannot see the entire harbor in S3D -- most likely because S3D does not have a reference back to the location of the object DAT files in ..\data\Library. I was wondering if there is a way to view an entire harbor as defined in the "Locations" DAT files using S3D or even some other tool. Obviously, whoever built these harbors had to have reference back to the Library DAT objects and had to be able to SEE what they were building in order to create the "Location" DAT files that define complete harbors. Bottom line is I'm looking to take an existing harbor and modify it to create new harbors rather than starting from scratch.*

09-08-14, 05:40 PM	#5
Alfred Keitzer Kapitän zur See Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 93 Downloads: 264 Uploads: 0	My interest is in building a more accurate Lorient base, if one does not already exist, using the available objects of the SH3 DAT Library and then positioning that base in the correct location. I am aware that: (a) Harbor objects are stored in DAT files located in the ..\data\Library directory (b) Bases are built using template DAT files located in the ..\data\terrain\Locations directory, which actually reference objects in the "Library" DAT files. (c) Base placement is based on the Campaign_LND.mis file in ..\data\Campaigns\Campaign directory The main steps I am interested in is how one uses tools, and which tools, to get from (a) to (b).Things like: (a) Must all the objects you want to use to build a harbor be extracted from the Library DAT files? (b) Best tool to VISUALLY build a base using the Library DAT objects? (c) Once you have your base built in step (b), how does one take the component parts that make up the base and implement (reference) them in a "Locations" template DAT file?This seems like the hardest part because you are not using the objects directly, but referencing them with template "placement" commands. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

09-13-14, 05:27 PM	#7
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	We have the decompiled Pack3d now to work with. Several issues may be raised as to why I decided to go this route. 1. With release of S3D there was a dumbing down of creative modders IF S3D could not address the issues. 2. I'm not ready to re-invent the 'wheel'. I don't have the heart nor the time to invest. I've seen what that has cost others and nearly suffered it myself. 3. I have great respect for a Modder that goes beyound what available Tools offer. IF a way to actually view Locations dats and work the Tools I'll suggest is not good enuff? I have no problem walking away. I hate lazy people that want a simple solution. 4. If you want anything better then I'll offer? Let me know now. I'm a known Richard and will go work on my Air Guns.

09-15-14, 03:02 PM	#9
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	The files you refer to are only the Pack3D 1 files. We both know there's better code to work with by decompiling all the versions. If I knew Delphi better? I'd not mess with java.

09-16-14, 05:25 PM	#11
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	Use DJ Java Decompiler. You can decompile even the .class files. Delphi is what a few Tools ref gave me source code for. Problem is he adjusted some components that I don't have the knowledge to duplicate right now.

09-17-14, 04:44 PM	#13
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	Alex, Can you hook me up with someone that knows Delphi? I have source from ref that could be used to give a visual and adjustable editor.

09-18-14, 01:43 PM	#15
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,649 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	One could use Noesis to create a viewer/exporter if good in Python. There was a GR2 exporter done in Noesis for SWTOR. They changed the format then. Some Crazy Guys changed the Plugin code for Noesis to adapt. Sansal's Java code can be changed to do what you suggested Alex. Read the Location dat files, exchange the Positioning data for the actual 3D stuff to create a new dat that S3D could then view. Once changed in S3D? Reverse the process for import with the modified code. We change 3D objects back to positional data. Or one could start from scratch in C++ and just do a quick converter kind of like the GR2 thing some Nut Job did awhile back.