DW Mod question

[in_vino_vomitus]

Seems to be fixed. adjusted the properties of the cmputil utility to run as admin and in win7 compatibility mode and now the .bat file is running fine.

I thought i'd done that previously, but maybe not in the same way. I think I asked it to run in xp compatibility mode.

Anyway it seems to have worked. Lets see...

[FPSchazly]

P-3 is awesome, I love that thing. To classify a contact on the narrowband, you have to place a tracker on one of the signal's constituent frequencies up in the frequency spectrum plot (Narrowband Waterfall). You can't just assign a tracker to the signal down in the bearing plot (Narrowband Search). This is for American subs, of course.

[in_vino_vomitus]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

P-3 is awesome, I love that thing. To classify a contact on the narrowband, you have to place a tracker on one of the signal's constituent frequencies up in the frequency spectrum plot (Narrowband Waterfall). You can't just assign a tracker to the signal down in the bearing plot (Narrowband Search). This is for American subs, of course.

Nice one - Will check that out forthwith I tell you what though - I could have done with a tutorial on resolving TA ambiguity in the FFG - I had great fun learning that

I like the idea of setting alarms for particular frequencies. I haven't seen any guidance on which are good freq's to monitor though - Is that something you learn from experience or have I missed something fundamental?

Anyway, bit by bit I'm getting there. Give me a week and I might be ready to start a campaign

Thanks for taking the time to make the tutorials btw...

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by in_vino_vomitus

Nice one - Will check that out forthwith I tell you what though - I could have done with a tutorial on resolving TA ambiguity in the FFG - I had great fun learning that

I like the idea of setting alarms for particular frequencies. I haven't seen any guidance on which are good freq's to monitor though - Is that something you learn from experience or have I missed something fundamental?

Anyway, bit by bit I'm getting there. Give me a week and I might be ready to start a campaign

Thanks for taking the time to make the tutorials btw...

Well, it depends on what you're looking for! Assuming you're doing a match where it's Americans against another country, only American submarines (submarines that can hurt you, at least) have a first frequency of 60, so it's good to set an alarm for 50. If you know you're up against a Kilo, set an alarm for 340, or 1050 if you can get enough signal strength. If you're expecting an Akula, set an alarm for 320. Akula shares its first three frequencies with several other subs, though, so you're going to want to classify with the fourth frequency and the fifth frequency in the case of an Akula-I.

There's no real clear cut method to it but you're going to want to do what makes sense given the situation and the platforms you expect to be engaging. I would always say have an alarm as 50, though. No American ships have 50 as a first frequency.

Also, anytime regarding the tutorials! I enjoy making them so no biggie

[in_vino_vomitus]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Well, it depends on what you're looking for! Assuming you're doing a match where it's Americans against another country, no other country's submarines (submarines that can hurt you, at least) has a first frequency of 50, so that's a good alarm to set. If you're playing Russia and you know you're up against a Kilo, set an alarm for 340 or 1050 if you can get enough signal strength. If you're expecting an Akula, set an alarm for 320.

There's no real clear cut method to it but you're going to want to do what makes sense given the situation and the platforms you expect to be engaging. I would always say have an alarm as 50, though. No American ships have 50 as a first frequency.

Also, anytime regarding the tutorials! I enjoy making them so no biggie

Thanks! Also thanks for telling me how to set the narrowband tracker. I probably wouldn't have worked that out, except maybe by accident.

[Pisces]

I really like this tool:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3403

It beats flipping through pages of frequencies, like this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3402

[in_vino_vomitus]

Originally Posted by Pisces

I really like this tool:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3403

It beats flipping through pages of frequencies, like this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3402

Thanks - I'll check that out.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by in_vino_vomitus

I like the idea of setting alarms for particular frequencies. I haven't seen any guidance on which are good freq's to monitor though - Is that something you

Hi in_vino_vomitus,
the answer given by FPSchazly is very good info BUT I red in a previous post of yours that you are using (installed) the LWAMI mod.

I assume you red the manual that comes with that mod (if not, I strongly, very strongly, suggest you to do so) and I just want to remeber that in LWAMI the Sound Profile for every platform is changed in the databse, and the narrowband spectrum of each patform is significantly altered.

With the LWAMI mod comes a handful spreadsheet with all the complete Sound Profies of all the platforms, nicely sorted. It is a good idea to print it out or keep the file open for ALT+TABing to it while playing.

Good hunting

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by banryu79

...
I assume you red the manual that comes with that mod (if not, I strongly, very strongly, suggest you to do so) and I just want to remeber that in LWAMI the Sound Profile for every platform is changed in the databse, and the narrowband spectrum of each patform is significantly altered.

With the LWAMI mod comes a handful spreadsheet with all the complete Sound Profies of all the platforms, nicely sorted. It is a good idea to print it out or keep the file open for ALT+TABing to it while playing.

Good hunting

Good point. I am not sure how well the utility by Heinrich Liebe compares to LWAMI, as I think it pre dates it. I used it, but it is too long ago to remember if there were discrepancies.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Pisces

Good point. I am not sure how well the utility by Heinrich Liebe compares to LWAMI, as I think it pre dates it. I used it, but it is too long ago to remember if there were discrepancies.

I do not know what it is that utility or what it does.

But if one of its aims is to help the user in the "sound profile identification process" based on the comparison between the detected narrowband frequencies of a contact against the "sound profile ingame database" well... chances are in_vino_vomitus does not really need it as he is using LWAMI.

Why it is so? Becuase the mod, as already said, changes all the patforms sound profiles and it changes them in a (imo) "more logical" way. Partial sound profiles in LWAMI are "less generic" than in vanilla DW, and you can actually uniquelly id a contact with only 3 frequencies detected or even with 2 (with a good, educated guess).
For example, consider that the 2nd frequency value depends on the contact plower plant characteristics and the 3rd frequency value is determined by the contact displacement. So with just the 2nd/3rd line and a bit of intel data you can guessestimate who is who. Even without intel to hep you make an educated guess, the LWAMI platforms sound profiles are "more unique" than in vanilla DW and you usually have less matching sound profiles to check over.

I invite once again the OP to read the first pages of the LWAMI mod, and the specific section in that manual about Sound Profiles and their logic. The LWAMI authors have done a great job, I really appreciate it VERY much.

--- EDIT
From the LWAMI manual:

 

1.1.4 Sonar Profiles
Starting in version 3.11, every narrowband signature has been revised. This was done because the large number of platforms we added meant that users would have to go through a very large number of possible profiles when attempting to classify at narrowband. This problem was made worse by the existing convention of having very different ships having similar profiles, which meant that the possible profiles would not even help the player guess what the contact was.
In LWAMI, each of the first 3 frequency lines give the player information about the contact. This information is useful for classification even without the filter. When used with the filter, the player can be confident that the profiles shown have concrete similarities with the actual contact.
As before, the first line remains an indication of the electrical system used. Many of the assignments have changed, however. Ships originally built for Western Europe, Canada, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil, Colombia, and Saudi Arabia have switched to 60hz. Note that this is not necessarily the same as the country they were built in or currently serve for.
The second line now represents the power plant. Knowing the power plant narrows down the classification significantly. For example, nuclear or diesel-electric almost always mean submarine, gas turbine almost always means fast warship, gasoline means small craft, and steam turbines tend to be older vessels. The frequencies are:
100hz: Steam Turbine
125hz: Nuclear
140hz: Gas Turbine
160hz: (Diesel-)Electric
175hz: Diesel
190hz: Gasoline
215hz: Rocket Torpedo
225hz: Electric Torpedo
240hz: Chemical (“Otto”) Torpedo
275hz: Peroxide Torpedo
These frequencies are adjusted -5 for a shrouded prop or pumpjet (single shaft only), and are adjusted +5 for two shafts and +10 for three or more shafts. In the case of combined propulsion types (not including diesel-electric subs, which are treated as electric only), there are two “second” lines. For example, a CODAG (combined diesel and gas) ship with two shafts has lines at 145 and 180.

The third line represents the size (displacement) of the ship, and can be thought of as flow noise. The frequencies are:
600hz: <25 tons:
575hz: 50 tons
550hz: 100 tons
525hz: 500 tons
500hz: 1000 tons
450hz: 2500 tons
425hz: 5000 tons
400hz: 10000 tons
375hz: 15000 tons
350hz: 25000 tons
325hz: 50000 tons
300hz: 100000 tons

The last two lines (or line, if it has two “second” lines) in many cases are unchanged, but some have been adjusted to give hints about nationality.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by banryu79

I do not know what it is that utility or what it does.

But if one of its aims is to help the user in the "sound profile identification process" based on the comparison between the detected narrowband frequencies of a contact against the "sound profile ingame database" well... chances are in_vino_vomitus does not really need it as he is using LWAMI.

Yes, based on the line frequencies you give it, it filters out the probable units that fit. But the table seems hardcoded. So no use for LWAMI I suppose.

[in_vino_vomitus]

Originally Posted by banryu79

Hi in_vino_vomitus,
the answer given by FPSchazly is very good info BUT I red in a previous post of yours that you are using (installed) the LWAMI mod.

I assume you red the manual that comes with that mod (if not, I strongly, very strongly, suggest you to do so) and I just want to remeber that in LWAMI the Sound Profile for every platform is changed in the databse, and the narrowband spectrum of each patform is significantly altered.

With the LWAMI mod comes a handful spreadsheet with all the complete Sound Profies of all the platforms, nicely sorted. It is a good idea to print it out or keep the file open for ALT+TABing to it while playing.

Good hunting

I have the sound profile SS. I guess if I knew more about the open office suite I could run a search on it that would do the same as the utility. That's definitely something to look forward to. I'm still learning how the stuff all works. right now. I didn't know about the various components to an acoustic signature though. Can you point me at any writing on the subject?

[in_vino_vomitus]

This is getting really confusing. I thought I had LWAMI properly installed, but I've noticed a couple of discrepancies between the manual and the game. I can't seem to get the Seahawk to use the dipping sonar when I'm controlling the FFG. The 2000lb mines on the P3 haven't been changed to CAPTORs and according to the Ownship info on the USNI screen, the 688i still has 2 TB16 towed arrays rather than the TB23 on the starboard side. On the other hand, the mod is definitely installed, it just seem that some features aren't. I know that Win7 had a bit of an issue with CMPUTIL, but it seemed to work in the end. I'm just thinking that maybe there are some files I need to copy across manually or something. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by in_vino_vomitus

. I didn't know about the various components to an acoustic signature though. Can you point me at any writing on the subject?

Well, it is all explained in the LWAMI manual, really. You don't need any other source for it. If you look again at my previous post you will find a spoiler tag that contains the manual's relevant section; I have included it for your convenience (but you can find it in the manual, as already said).

... I thought I had LWAMI properly installed, but I've noticed a couple of discrepancies between the manual and the game. I can't seem to get the Seahawk to use the dipping sonar when I'm controlling the FFG. The 2000lb mines on the P3 haven't been changed to CAPTORs and according to the Ownship info on the USNI screen, the 688i still has 2 TB16 towed arrays rather than the TB23 on the starboard side.

I have no ingame experience about the FFG and the P3 Orion, but I wil try to help you as I can.
I red in the LWAMI manual about the MH60 dipping sonar:

 

· The ASTAC-controlled MH60 now has dipping sonar capability. To order the MH60 to dip, assign a Fly-To waypoint where you want the helo to conduct a dipping search. When the helo gets to the waypoint, the helicopter will stop and descend to 45ft, at which point its dipping sensors will become active. To stop the dipping procedure, assign another waypoint and the helo will go back up to speed and go back to 300ft. The helo has an active dipping sensor (which of course can be heard on submarine active intercept) set at 45ft of depth. The helo also has passive sensors set at 45ft, 600ft, and 1400ft. All sensors are active at the same time; there is no waiting for the sonar to be lowered. To compensate for this efficiency, we have reduced the sensitivity of the AI sensors on the MH-60.

About the P3 2000lb mines changed in CAPTORs:

 

The 2000lb mine has been replaced by the Mk60 CAPTOR antisubmarine mine. The CAPTOR has a passive sonar equivalent to a VLAD sonobuoy and will fire a Mk 46 torpedo at any hostile submarine detected within 4km. The CAPTOR has the ability to classify between hostile and friendly subs and only engages hostile subs; this was done because there is no way for the player to program the weapon to engage only contacts matching certain sonar profiles, as would be done with the real CAPTOR. The CAPTOR requires ROE set to Wartime to function

I have highlighted what I beleive are the relevant parts with a bold font.
Hope it helps.

[in_vino_vomitus]

Originally Posted by banryu79

Well, it is all explained in the LWAMI manual, really. You don't need any other source for it. If you look again at my previous post you will find a spoiler tag that contains the manual's relevant section; I have included it for your convenience (but you can find it in the manual, as already said).

I have no ingame experience about the FFG and the P3 Orion, but I wil try to help you as I can.
I red in the LWAMI manual about the MH60 dipping sonar:

 

· The ASTAC-controlled MH60 now has dipping sonar capability. To order the MH60 to dip, assign a Fly-To waypoint where you want the helo to conduct a dipping search. When the helo gets to the waypoint, the helicopter will stop and descend to 45ft, at which point its dipping sensors will become active. To stop the dipping procedure, assign another waypoint and the helo will go back up to speed and go back to 300ft. The helo has an active dipping sensor (which of course can be heard on submarine active intercept) set at 45ft of depth. The helo also has passive sensors set at 45ft, 600ft, and 1400ft. All sensors are active at the same time; there is no waiting for the sonar to be lowered. To compensate for this efficiency, we have reduced the sensitivity of the AI sensors on the MH-60.

About the P3 2000lb mines changed in CAPTORs:

 

The 2000lb mine has been replaced by the Mk60 CAPTOR antisubmarine mine. The CAPTOR has a passive sonar equivalent to a VLAD sonobuoy and will fire a Mk 46 torpedo at any hostile submarine detected within 4km. The CAPTOR has the ability to classify between hostile and friendly subs and only engages hostile subs; this was done because there is no way for the player to program the weapon to engage only contacts matching certain sonar profiles, as would be done with the real CAPTOR. The CAPTOR requires ROE set to Wartime to function

I have highlighted what I beleive are the relevant parts with a bold font.
Hope it helps.

Yeah - Have read the manual - but missed that line - good point - as for the dipping sonar issue - although the helo *looks* like it's using it's dipping sonar, it doesn't seem to be detecting subs that are as little as 1000m away - It's certainly not reporting them. There are a couple of other discrepancies - the towed array on the 688i for instance. Platform info says it still has 2 TB16's - guess I need to test how they perform to know if that's just a labelling oversight or something

None of this is really that earthshaking - Still a good game. but I have an annoying tendency to pick at details