Moving thru the boat?? - Page 3

ReallyDedPoet · 03-11-14, 04:23 PM

This was a great thread in it's day:Here

Sniper297 · 03-11-14, 04:58 PM

In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off. That's another argument I always lose with the train simulator casual players who want eye candy and fluff - suggest more realistic options and they have a hissy fit even after you try to explain that it could be set up as an OPTION, just like flight simulator has sliders for more or less realism in flight physics and controls. For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

TG626 · 03-11-14, 05:19 PM

Can't tell you how often I've had a leak and had to keep ordering depths just to keep from sinking too low or slowly rising too high...

BigWalleye · 03-11-14, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off. That's another argument I always lose with the train simulator casual players who want eye candy and fluff - suggest more realistic options and they have a hissy fit even after you try to explain that it could be set up as an OPTION, just like flight simulator has sliders for more or less realism in flight physics and controls. For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

You want a higher fidelity model of the boat.

I want a higher fidelity model of the boat commander's decision space.

We're not wrong. but we're not right, either. Neither are the people who want eye candy. There's a whole forum around here for people who get off on the beautiful pictures they make with SH4. They aren't wrong either.

But, if I get to choose, I'd rather have effort put into functional modeling of the crew rather than physical modeling of the boat. YMMV.

Sniper297 · 03-11-14, 07:25 PM

No argument here, different strokes for different folks.

I would love to have the option to walk like a first person shooter through a complete boat, and the damage control and crew screens include forward and after battery, both engine rooms and maneuvering (motor room), with the interior modeling all those compartments plus the pump room. My priorities however;
1. Ballast balance buoyancy
2. Do SOMETHING - ANYTHING - with the ADHD brain damaged crew AI (supposed to be Artificial Intelligence, in SH4 it stands for Always Incoherent) so they report important things like an escort of the convoy you're tracking suddenly turning toward you and bending on knots. The only thing those blithering idiots are programmed to report are new contacts, and they're not even smart enough to realize the "new" contact they keep reporting over and over is the same escort zigzagging in and out of visual range. It's almost not worth doing an end-around in SH4, if you're not already ahead of the convoy turn away and let them go by.
3. What you said, an SH5 style internal walk around.
4. An options screen to change default settings - radar defaults to 20 kyards and sweep instead of 8000 yards and focus (every time I go to look at the PPI scope the switch automatically changes to focus in the wrong direction), torpedoes can be set to high speed contact 20 foot depth by default so you don't have to tediously set them yourself every time (another crew job that the captain has to perform in SH4), stuff like that. "Put me on the bearing, up scope" the assistant approach officer doing the waltz with you will spin the scope to the bearing on the TDC, in game no option for that.

Lot of other wish lists after that, but your number 1 wish does come in my top 10 at number 3.

TheDarkWraith · 03-12-14, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off...For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

Thanks for reminding me about this for SH5. I just figured out how to take manual control of the fore/aft diveplanes in it

It's not simple to do as requires some patches to the files. Think I located all the ballast tanks also

ETR3(SS) · 03-12-14, 07:37 AM

Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills. I need the ability to conduct drills so the crew will become better. The ability of the crew is determined by its experience in handling certain situations. A higher rank does not always mean that that individual is better than any other.

Dread Knot · 03-12-14, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills. I need the ability to conduct drills so the crew will become better. The ability of the crew is determined by its experience in handling certain situations. A higher rank does not always mean that that individual is better than any other.

Agreed. This is usually what skippers spent that big chunk of time between leaving and reaching their patrol area on. Having nothing to do besides keeping the time compression pumped up to it's highest level in the two weeks steaming from Pearl Harbor to Japan seems kind of a waste.

Sniper297 · 03-12-14, 12:11 PM

Missed one,

"Can't tell you how often I've had a leak and had to keep ordering depths just to keep from sinking too low or slowly rising too high..."

Too often. E to blow ballast, then P for periscope depth rising past 100 feet to avoid broaching in the middle of 6 destroyers, waiting for it to sink back down to 300 and blowing again, lather rinse repeat.

Until you run out of compressed air. Flooding in the after torpedo room so the stern is down, it WILL stay at periscope depth but with the periscope 30 feet underwater and the bow sticking up 40 feet above the surface. No way to trim by pumping from after trim to sea or putting a bubble in some of the after ballast tanks. This game gives the impression that there's one ballast tank that's either empty or full, and no such thing as trim tanks.

Just the ability to compensate for flooding to level the boat and/or keep it from sinking would be enough, having emergency blow as the only option is ridiculously simplified for simulating any submersible vessel.

"Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills."

Second that, every WWII fleet sub article the pundits claim 30 seconds for Das Boot and 60 seconds for US fleet boat. Every account by an actual WWII submariner says 60 seconds for the first few days, but keelhauling for the entire crew if they couldn't get that down to 30 seconds after a couple weeks of drills.

"Having nothing to do besides keeping the time compression pumped up to it's highest level in the two weeks steaming from Pearl Harbor to Japan"

Primary reason I've "Gone Asiatic" and made the mod with the supply bases, that long tedious trek to and from the operating area was just too boring for what's supposed to be entertainment.

Rammstein0991 · 03-12-14, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

"...what would be that vital aspect in your opinion?"

Elementary, my dear bubblehead, Buoyancy! The earliest flight simulators had fine control and carefully modded physics for slow flight, turbulence, dead engine, stall - spin and recovery, along with trim controls for pitch roll and yaw, altitude loss in a turn if you didn't add power and raise the nose, you name it they modeled it carefully. Sub simulators have NOTHING for ballast control, no pumping flooding blowing internal tanks to trim and balance the boat at all. Perfect neutral buoyancy at all times unless damaged and flooding, then there's no way to compensate for flooding by trimming the ballast. Undamaged hull and "bulkheads" (which are internal and would have nothing to do with water coming in from outside) means you stop motors and go to zero speed, set depth anywhere and it hovers there indefinitely without slowly rising/sinking and pitching. While waiting for a target to reach the firing point I try to keep some way on and time it to arrive at the firing point close to the perfect position anyway, but it irritates me that you CAN just go to the firing point, stop dead and never have to move. Heavy flooding in the after torpedo room you're down by the stern, no way to compensate with trim tanks?! Flight physics are always considered the most vital aspect of any flight simulator, if that's not realistically modeled it's considered lame whatever else it has. So why all these years since the 1983 Spectrum Holobyte GATO have we accepted sub simulators that don't accurately model the physics and controls for submersible vessels?

"Curious is all."
Good thing you ain't a cat, hey?

Sometimes we have enough going on to deal with (such as during dc runs by DD's)...now we have to keep track of the "gas bladders"?

hunter301 · 03-12-14, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Agreed. This is usually what skippers spent that big chunk of time between leaving and reaching their patrol area on. Having nothing to do besides keeping the time compression pumped up to it's highest level in the two weeks steaming from Pearl Harbor to Japan......

Yeah that's usually when I get it right up the ol' wazoo.
Just as I get up to go to the bathroom or kitchen, that's when I hear the alarms going off....
"Were taking damage sir!!"
"Flooding in the torpedo room!!"
"Damage to engines!!"

WTF.......

I'm in the middle of the pacific ocean!?

I thought the game was supposed to reduce time compression when an event took place. "Radar contact!" or "Ship bearing....."

Sniper297 · 03-12-14, 01:43 PM

Problem there is the TC is as brain damaged as the crew AI, it will drop for really IMPORTANT stuff like PAC news and contact reports, and especially sightings of horribly dangerous things like fishing boats, but three destroyers coming at you doing 34 knots with guns blazing is too mundane to bother with until the first HE rounds actually hit.

hunter301 · 03-12-14, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Problem there is the TC is as brain damaged as the crew AI, it will drop for really IMPORTANT stuff like PAC news and contact reports, and especially sightings of horribly dangerous things like fishing boats, but three destroyers coming at you doing 34 knots with guns blazing is too mundane to bother with until the first HE rounds actually hit.

and with time compression on by the time you fall, slide, trip and stumble your way back to your keyboard TC has allowed those three destroyers to launch 5" shells at you at the same rate as a mini .50.
.....................

Sniper297 · 03-12-14, 02:10 PM

When you start taking damage it doesn't help to have your finger on the backspace key since it DOES automatically drop to 1 at the first loss of hit points. The problem is how long it takes, at the first hit program commands stop TC, it takes 1 second to stop it - if TC is at 1024 1 second is about 17 minutes of game time, which is a lot of banging.

I sneak into Osaka frequently to shoot fish in a barrel (KOBE always has some juicy CVs and BBs sitting at anchor) and often get caught in shallow water by a patrol who promptly summons every subchaser and destroyer in the harbor. Finally sink a few and get the rest biting on a decoy long enough to sneak off a few miles and settle on the bottom while the DC crew repairs damage, but no TC allowed while you're waiting - if TC is higher than 4 while you're sitting on the bottom, the "run aground" program kicks in and starts taking hit points away. Rapidly.

hunter301 · 03-13-14, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

I sneak into Osaka frequently to shoot fish in a barrel (KOBE always has some juicy CVs and BBs sitting at anchor) and often get caught in shallow water by a patrol who promptly summons every subchaser and destroyer in the harbor.

Which mission is that?
I do the one were you have to sink the Yamato but it takes a long time thru enemy waters and heavy enemy traffic just to get there.
Every time I use TC after setting a predetermined course I get hammered half way there. Not sure by what.

03-11-14, 04:23 PM	#31
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,888 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	This was a great thread in it's day:Here __________________ Back in the Day

03-11-14, 05:19 PM	#33
TG626 Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: USS Seal - Somewhere in the Pacific Posts: 268 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 3	Can't tell you how often I've had a leak and had to keep ordering depths just to keep from sinking too low or slowly rising too high... __________________ T. E. Thompson, LTCDR Commanding Officer, U.S.S. Seal (formerly S-40 (SS-145))

03-12-14, 07:37 AM	#37
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills. I need the ability to conduct drills so the crew will become better. The ability of the crew is determined by its experience in handling certain situations. A higher rank does not always mean that that individual is better than any other. __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

03-11-14, 04:58 PM	#32
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off. That's another argument I always lose with the train simulator casual players who want eye candy and fluff - suggest more realistic options and they have a hissy fit even after you try to explain that it could be set up as an OPTION, just like flight simulator has sliders for more or less realism in flight physics and controls. For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

03-11-14, 07:25 PM	#35
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	No argument here, different strokes for different folks. I would love to have the option to walk like a first person shooter through a complete boat, and the damage control and crew screens include forward and after battery, both engine rooms and maneuvering (motor room), with the interior modeling all those compartments plus the pump room. My priorities however; 1. Ballast balance buoyancy 2. Do SOMETHING - ANYTHING - with the ADHD brain damaged crew AI (supposed to be Artificial Intelligence, in SH4 it stands for Always Incoherent) so they report important things like an escort of the convoy you're tracking suddenly turning toward you and bending on knots. The only thing those blithering idiots are programmed to report are new contacts, and they're not even smart enough to realize the "new" contact they keep reporting over and over is the same escort zigzagging in and out of visual range. It's almost not worth doing an end-around in SH4, if you're not already ahead of the convoy turn away and let them go by. 3. What you said, an SH5 style internal walk around. 4. An options screen to change default settings - radar defaults to 20 kyards and sweep instead of 8000 yards and focus (every time I go to look at the PPI scope the switch automatically changes to focus in the wrong direction), torpedoes can be set to high speed contact 20 foot depth by default so you don't have to tediously set them yourself every time (another crew job that the captain has to perform in SH4), stuff like that. "Put me on the bearing, up scope" the assistant approach officer doing the waltz with you will spin the scope to the bearing on the TDC, in game no option for that. Lot of other wish lists after that, but your number 1 wish does come in my top 10 at number 3.

03-12-14, 12:11 PM	#39
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Missed one, "Can't tell you how often I've had a leak and had to keep ordering depths just to keep from sinking too low or slowly rising too high..." Too often. E to blow ballast, then P for periscope depth rising past 100 feet to avoid broaching in the middle of 6 destroyers, waiting for it to sink back down to 300 and blowing again, lather rinse repeat. Until you run out of compressed air. Flooding in the after torpedo room so the stern is down, it WILL stay at periscope depth but with the periscope 30 feet underwater and the bow sticking up 40 feet above the surface. No way to trim by pumping from after trim to sea or putting a bubble in some of the after ballast tanks. This game gives the impression that there's one ballast tank that's either empty or full, and no such thing as trim tanks. Just the ability to compensate for flooding to level the boat and/or keep it from sinking would be enough, having emergency blow as the only option is ridiculously simplified for simulating any submersible vessel. "Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills." Second that, every WWII fleet sub article the pundits claim 30 seconds for Das Boot and 60 seconds for US fleet boat. Every account by an actual WWII submariner says 60 seconds for the first few days, but keelhauling for the entire crew if they couldn't get that down to 30 seconds after a couple weeks of drills. "Having nothing to do besides keeping the time compression pumped up to it's highest level in the two weeks steaming from Pearl Harbor to Japan" Primary reason I've "Gone Asiatic" and made the mod with the supply bases, that long tedious trek to and from the operating area was just too boring for what's supposed to be entertainment.

03-12-14, 01:43 PM	#42
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Problem there is the TC is as brain damaged as the crew AI, it will drop for really IMPORTANT stuff like PAC news and contact reports, and especially sightings of horribly dangerous things like fishing boats, but three destroyers coming at you doing 34 knots with guns blazing is too mundane to bother with until the first HE rounds actually hit.

03-12-14, 02:10 PM	#44
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	When you start taking damage it doesn't help to have your finger on the backspace key since it DOES automatically drop to 1 at the first loss of hit points. The problem is how long it takes, at the first hit program commands stop TC, it takes 1 second to stop it - if TC is at 1024 1 second is about 17 minutes of game time, which is a lot of banging. I sneak into Osaka frequently to shoot fish in a barrel (KOBE always has some juicy CVs and BBs sitting at anchor) and often get caught in shallow water by a patrol who promptly summons every subchaser and destroyer in the harbor. Finally sink a few and get the rest biting on a decoy long enough to sneak off a few miles and settle on the bottom while the DC crew repairs damage, but no TC allowed while you're waiting - if TC is higher than 4 while you're sitting on the bottom, the "run aground" program kicks in and starts taking hit points away. Rapidly.