Americans fall behind in math and science

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

A huge reason is this American fascination towards liberal arts.

In many Asian countries, there is a stigma that "liberal arts are for losers". In most Chinese schools, we can see a trend that smart kids go into science and engineering, the not so smart ones go into finance and commerce, and the absolute bottom of the pack go into the arts.

Thus at the high school level, anybody who isn't too dumb would go and study the maths and sciences, wereas with american students, too many of them would not study math and science, since they are aiming to study liberal arts in university.

If this is true, then it goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that getting a college degree, ANY college degree, is the gateway to prosperity. A myth that one could probably say was fabricated by the industry for higher education. It's quite the racket..... errr i mean business these days, which also spills over into the finance industry with government subsidized loans creating an entire generation of indentured servants holding meaningless college degrees they'll be paying on until they die or 20 years has elapsed, whichever comes first.

[mapuc]

In Sweden the government and the opposition is throwing words against each other, about who's to blame in the failure regarding the result of the Pisa-test.

Markus

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by mapuc

the Pisa-test.Markus

Some mis-engineered building not standing straight?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Some mis-engineered building not standing straight?

?? I thought the OP was talking about this test made by OECD here in scandinavia it's called Pisa-test.

So I thought it was the same in england, USA and the rest of the world.


Markus

[Penguin]

Americans fall behind in math and science

article date: December 5, 2007




(MGR posted results in of the recent study in post 15, or check the original source here)

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

?? I thought the OP was talking about this test made by OECD here in scandinavia it's called Pisa-test.

So I thought it was the same in england, USA and the rest of the world.


Markus

You are correct...try not to get distracted.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If this is true, then it goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that getting a college degree, ANY college degree, is the gateway to prosperity. A myth that one could probably say was fabricated by the industry for higher education. It's quite the racket..... errr i mean business these days, which also spills over into the finance industry with government subsidized loans creating an entire generation of indentured servants holding meaningless college degrees they'll be paying on until they die or 20 years has elapsed, whichever comes first.

I never understood that to be honest. If you major in a stem subject, you have a good chance to get a job in your field. If you are a commerce major you have a chance of getting a job in business.

What can you do if you end up a feminist studies major?

Hell, playing for your school's baseball team probably gives you a better chance of turning pro.

Now its true, many jobs have little to do with formal training. Employers in those fields want a degree to "judge character". But lets be honest here, a science degree shows that you are probably smart and have good logic and reasoning skills. An engineering degree shows that you are smart and was trained in design and innovation. A music degree shows that you at least have the capability to perform memorized works in front of an audience. Playing on your school's sports team means that you are fit and understands teamwork.

But some degrees like sexual diversity studies? That just tells people you spent a few years "exploring your body".


In fact, in China and Japan, the most popular arts major is languages and cultures. English, French, Japanese, Spanish, majors are very popular in China and the employment prospects are reasonably good.

However, these degrees are utterly useless in North America. If I need something translated into Spanish, I'll just find a Hispanic American, a native speaker. If I need an expert on Japanese culture, I'll just go find a Japanese immigrant. Your foreign language degree and your cultures degree is completely and utterly useless.

[vienna]

From 2007 to 2013:


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Educati...reform-failing


The local news radio station here in Los Angeles reported this today also noting Vietnam was included in the tests for the first time; they palced higher than the U.S. in the test scores...

From Ducimus:

If this is true, then it goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that getting a college degree, ANY college degree, is the gateway to prosperity.

Several years ago, I participated in the roll out of an automated stundent class enrollment project at the University of California, a large, prestigious, private univeristy in Los Angeles, sort of 'Ivy League', West. Part pof my work involved actually interacting with the students as they selected their courses for the coming semester. Almost without exception, the students who were US citizens opted for business classes, on the way to an MBA degree. The students from other countries, notably from Asia and the Middle East, enrolled in classes related to the sciences, information technology, and medicine. Thsi all occurred during the height of the Reagan-era, Wall Street "greed is good" mania when an MBA was determined to be the best, if not only, path to great success. Now, those students from the US are probably the ones who have assisted or masterminded the economic failures of the intervening years while the other foreign students are probably the ones who went on to make the scientific, medical, and technological advances that have enriched our lives and, in turn, made those students far more relevant and richer than those who salivated over an MBA...


<O>

[Platapus]

What concerns me is that despite all the money spent on education in this country, almost half of the students are still below average.

I think 3/4 of you are wrong.
The other 5/8ths?
I'm not sure about yet.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by privateer

I think 3/4 of you are wrong.
The other 5/8ths?
I'm not sure about yet.

Are you 126.87% sure of this?...


<O>

[Platapus]

There are three kinds of students
Those who understand math
Those who don't.

Now my head hurts!
All I need now is that thumper from down under to mess with me.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

You are correct...try not to get distracted.

Ohhh! Look at the shiney object in the corner!

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

I never understood that to be honest. If you major in a stem subject, you have a good chance to get a job in your field. If you are a commerce major you have a chance of getting a job in business.

What can you do if you end up a feminist studies major?

Hell, playing for your school's baseball team probably gives you a better chance of turning pro.

Now its true, many jobs have little to do with formal training. Employers in those fields want a degree to "judge character". But lets be honest here, a science degree shows that you are probably smart and have good logic and reasoning skills. An engineering degree shows that you are smart and was trained in design and innovation. A music degree shows that you at least have the capability to perform memorized works in front of an audience. Playing on your school's sports team means that you are fit and understands teamwork.

But some degrees like sexual diversity studies? That just tells people you spent a few years "exploring your body".


In fact, in China and Japan, the most popular arts major is languages and cultures. English, French, Japanese, Spanish, majors are very popular in China and the employment prospects are reasonably good.

However, these degrees are utterly useless in North America. If I need something translated into Spanish, I'll just find a Hispanic American, a native speaker. If I need an expert on Japanese culture, I'll just go find a Japanese immigrant. Your foreign language degree and your cultures degree is completely and utterly useless.

I agree it all depends on what your major is.If you major in a useful field or an in demand field an engineer for example you run a pretty good chance of finding a job in engineering in the US.Now you might not get the best job but you'll get a job.

One of my cousins owns a business insurance firm down in Ft.Lauderdale ,FL.His half sister who will be complementing high school very soon got interested in that industry helping my cousin.

He told her that the best job in the insurance industry the most in demand one is Risk Management (adjuster) this type job has been used by insurance companies for some time but until the past 10 or 15 years they where hiring people that had a degree more specif towards finances and less so in the specifics of the insurance industry.Now a few schools have curriculum focusing specifically on Risk Management for Insurance.

Of course my cousin he majored in communications at the University of Alabama which is kind of fitting because his job is more in sales though that was not what he had planned on doing.Still the education helped him I have no doubt of this.

I forget the exact statistic but I think the typical college graduate earns about one million dollars more in a career span than a person that does not have a college degree will earn in the US.

Now pretty much all of these liberal arts degrees are useless.But most of those people are trust fund kids anyway.