Americans fall behind in math and science

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

A huge reason is this American fascination towards liberal arts.

In many Asian countries, there is a stigma that "liberal arts are for losers". In most Chinese schools, we can see a trend that smart kids go into science and engineering, the not so smart ones go into finance and commerce, and the absolute bottom of the pack go into the arts.

Thus at the high school level, anybody who isn't too dumb would go and study the maths and sciences, wereas with american students, too many of them would not study math and science, since they are aiming to study liberal arts in university.

If this is true, then it goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that getting a college degree, ANY college degree, is the gateway to prosperity. A myth that one could probably say was fabricated by the industry for higher education. It's quite the racket..... errr i mean business these days, which also spills over into the finance industry with government subsidized loans creating an entire generation of indentured servants holding meaningless college degrees they'll be paying on until they die or 20 years has elapsed, whichever comes first.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

If this is true, then it goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that getting a college degree, ANY college degree, is the gateway to prosperity. A myth that one could probably say was fabricated by the industry for higher education. It's quite the racket..... errr i mean business these days, which also spills over into the finance industry with government subsidized loans creating an entire generation of indentured servants holding meaningless college degrees they'll be paying on until they die or 20 years has elapsed, whichever comes first.

I never understood that to be honest. If you major in a stem subject, you have a good chance to get a job in your field. If you are a commerce major you have a chance of getting a job in business.

What can you do if you end up a feminist studies major?

Hell, playing for your school's baseball team probably gives you a better chance of turning pro.

Now its true, many jobs have little to do with formal training. Employers in those fields want a degree to "judge character". But lets be honest here, a science degree shows that you are probably smart and have good logic and reasoning skills. An engineering degree shows that you are smart and was trained in design and innovation. A music degree shows that you at least have the capability to perform memorized works in front of an audience. Playing on your school's sports team means that you are fit and understands teamwork.

But some degrees like sexual diversity studies? That just tells people you spent a few years "exploring your body".


In fact, in China and Japan, the most popular arts major is languages and cultures. English, French, Japanese, Spanish, majors are very popular in China and the employment prospects are reasonably good.

However, these degrees are utterly useless in North America. If I need something translated into Spanish, I'll just find a Hispanic American, a native speaker. If I need an expert on Japanese culture, I'll just go find a Japanese immigrant. Your foreign language degree and your cultures degree is completely and utterly useless.

[vienna]

From 2007 to 2013:


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Educati...reform-failing


The local news radio station here in Los Angeles reported this today also noting Vietnam was included in the tests for the first time; they palced higher than the U.S. in the test scores...

From Ducimus:

If this is true, then it goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that getting a college degree, ANY college degree, is the gateway to prosperity.

Several years ago, I participated in the roll out of an automated stundent class enrollment project at the University of California, a large, prestigious, private univeristy in Los Angeles, sort of 'Ivy League', West. Part pof my work involved actually interacting with the students as they selected their courses for the coming semester. Almost without exception, the students who were US citizens opted for business classes, on the way to an MBA degree. The students from other countries, notably from Asia and the Middle East, enrolled in classes related to the sciences, information technology, and medicine. Thsi all occurred during the height of the Reagan-era, Wall Street "greed is good" mania when an MBA was determined to be the best, if not only, path to great success. Now, those students from the US are probably the ones who have assisted or masterminded the economic failures of the intervening years while the other foreign students are probably the ones who went on to make the scientific, medical, and technological advances that have enriched our lives and, in turn, made those students far more relevant and richer than those who salivated over an MBA...


<O>

[Platapus]

What concerns me is that despite all the money spent on education in this country, almost half of the students are still below average.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Platapus

What concerns me is that despite all the money spent on education in this country, almost half of the students are still below average.

There are the obvious factors, such as poor neighborhoods with poor schools, and there are the less obvious yet just as relevant factors, such as the very nature of american society itself.

The one thing that i consistently saw throughout my schooling was the immense lack of motivation in many, many of my peers. They didn't seem to care if they got horrible grades. They didnt seem to care about having to take summer school, or night school, or a 7th period to make up for their utter lack of effort (though they complained constantly about it). We had pretty good teachers for the most part, and our high school was and still is one of the highest ranking in california. So its not like they didnt have opportunity. They simply didnt try, whatsoever. They would always come to me asking how to do the lesson, complaining about how our teacher didnt explain it well at all, and i told them "Well, i understood it. Ergo he cant be THAT bad of a teacher. Why dont you go get help from him personally before or after school" and they just were too lazy to go.

For whatever reason, it seemed as though almost none of my friends had any sort of plan nor any sort of goal after graduation. I'd constantly tell them "If you dont get your act together, youre gonna get stuck wasting away in community college going absolutely nowhere". In California, many community colleges are a death trap for people planning to transfer. Getting even basic general ed classes is an absolute nightmare here, because our community colleges are overflowing with students. My friends didnt listen, didnt care, and only had the faintest of goals for what they wanted to do for the rest of their life. When i asked them what they wanted to do, they gave me what seemed like careers they had pulled out of a hat. They didnt listen to me when i tried to talk them out of some careers that get you nowhere (psychology is a good example).

Its not like they were teaching kids that things are going to work themselves out. Its not like they werent pounded with the idea that the beginning of the rest of their life was looming just over the horizon and that they needed to start thinking ahead. Thats all i ever seemed to hear was how important college/trade school was, yet few really took it to heart.

Another problem is that schools teach to pass tests. Students learn all of the information they are supposed to know at some point in their schooling, yet almost immediately forget about it when they dont use it. That's why you end up seeing all these videos (which are biased yet still startling) of random americans on the street being asked very simple and common questions, and seeing those people fail miserably. Other factors include this whole "everybody is a winner" mentality, and the impartial all-encompassing crap that schools employ now. For instance, If i had gotten into a fight with another kid when i was in high school, both of us would have been arrested, right on the spot. Doesnt matter who started it, who threw the first punch, who provoked it, or whether one kid was acting in self defense. Both would be arrested and suspended. The ONLY exception was if one kid literally took the beating and didnt try to defend himself at all. That was the only way only one of the students would be punished.

There are just too many reasons why so many students do poorly. Some dont have access to good schooling. Others dont get the assistance they need. Some get awful teachers (who are incapable of being fired). But most of the poorly performing students have an appalling lack of effort and are entirely unconcerned with anything outside of their daily lives. Actually that seems to be a problem with many Americans, not just students. They cant be bothered to be aware of whats going on elsewhere. They cant be bothered to retain even more rudimentary scientific and mathematical skills that have very practical use (such as knowing general information about their health). They cant be bothered to be informed about their government and the candidates they blindly elect. And its these kinds of people that become sheep. Its these kinds of people who never research ANYTHING beyond a superficial 30 second google search. Its these kinds of people who dont plan for anything in life and never fully understand the consequence of their actions. Its these kinds of people who live inside a bubble and are flabbergasted when the bubble pops and their way of life is suddenly changed because they had zero foresight and zero insight on anything that didnt occur in their day-to-day lives.

If we want to really improve our education, we need more than just the obvious reform that has been required for decades. We need to change our society as a whole to drill it into these kid's heads that you cant just expect to succeed in ANYTHING unless youre willing to put forth an effort and plan ahead. Im not saying kids have to go to college, or that they have to get a degree in a high-paying field. They can do whatever they want. (though we should be encouraging science and math so as to stay competitive in the world) But that attitude of "Ill do it later" and "Who cares" is going to give them a very rude wake up call in a very harsh world. Hopefully we can work towards eliminating those mentalities from our general society in the future.

[Platapus]

We need to move to Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

[vienna]

Nah, because then we'd have to listen to Garrison Keillor's endless droning and prattling...


<O>

I think 3/4 of you are wrong.
The other 5/8ths?
I'm not sure about yet.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by privateer

I think 3/4 of you are wrong.
The other 5/8ths?
I'm not sure about yet.

Are you 126.87% sure of this?...


<O>

[Platapus]

There are three kinds of students
Those who understand math
Those who don't.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Platapus

There are three kinds of students
Those who understand math
Those who don't.

Wait what?

Now my head hurts!
All I need now is that thumper from down under to mess with me.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

I never understood that to be honest. If you major in a stem subject, you have a good chance to get a job in your field. If you are a commerce major you have a chance of getting a job in business.

What can you do if you end up a feminist studies major?

Hell, playing for your school's baseball team probably gives you a better chance of turning pro.

Now its true, many jobs have little to do with formal training. Employers in those fields want a degree to "judge character". But lets be honest here, a science degree shows that you are probably smart and have good logic and reasoning skills. An engineering degree shows that you are smart and was trained in design and innovation. A music degree shows that you at least have the capability to perform memorized works in front of an audience. Playing on your school's sports team means that you are fit and understands teamwork.

But some degrees like sexual diversity studies? That just tells people you spent a few years "exploring your body".


In fact, in China and Japan, the most popular arts major is languages and cultures. English, French, Japanese, Spanish, majors are very popular in China and the employment prospects are reasonably good.

However, these degrees are utterly useless in North America. If I need something translated into Spanish, I'll just find a Hispanic American, a native speaker. If I need an expert on Japanese culture, I'll just go find a Japanese immigrant. Your foreign language degree and your cultures degree is completely and utterly useless.

I agree it all depends on what your major is.If you major in a useful field or an in demand field an engineer for example you run a pretty good chance of finding a job in engineering in the US.Now you might not get the best job but you'll get a job.

One of my cousins owns a business insurance firm down in Ft.Lauderdale ,FL.His half sister who will be complementing high school very soon got interested in that industry helping my cousin.

He told her that the best job in the insurance industry the most in demand one is Risk Management (adjuster) this type job has been used by insurance companies for some time but until the past 10 or 15 years they where hiring people that had a degree more specif towards finances and less so in the specifics of the insurance industry.Now a few schools have curriculum focusing specifically on Risk Management for Insurance.

Of course my cousin he majored in communications at the University of Alabama which is kind of fitting because his job is more in sales though that was not what he had planned on doing.Still the education helped him I have no doubt of this.

I forget the exact statistic but I think the typical college graduate earns about one million dollars more in a career span than a person that does not have a college degree will earn in the US.

Now pretty much all of these liberal arts degrees are useless.But most of those people are trust fund kids anyway.