An interesting development

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Or it is just one of these meaningless Obamanian symbolic gestures. Like his worthless speeches about Syria stepping beyond red lines. Or his meaningless appeasements to the Israelis while de facto getting the Iranians away with their nuclear bomb intentions.

He let two B52 do a practice flight. And I cleaned my basement yesterday.

No one is watching you clean your basement though unless you have some rodent hiding out down there and be now has taken a defense posture in response to your aggression.

I disagree at least in the US every large scale military exercise that is carried out is done so primarily to display to those who are observing our military power.When nations take part in joint exercises the same message is sent with the additional message that the participants are also allies.


It seems to be a moot point though if someone truly say Obama as weak then they would take action.If China was so bold they would not be talking they'd be doing China is as spineless as Obama.

[TarJak]

That's diplomacy for you. It's all about the talking to stop the doing.

[Wolferz]

The B-52's were just the decoys. China didn't, couldn't see the stealth bombers flying over Beijing.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Our mob called the Chinese ambassador in for a stern chat voicing our concerns about their expanded air space and today got a firm sod off from Beijing

Not surprising...I doubt they take much notice of any nation.

Originally Posted by Admiral Halsey

Yeah and i'm the queen of England. They probably didn't know they had even been there until the report came out.

I do agree there...your Majesty

[Oberon]

Now Japan and South Korea have joined in the fun:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25133957

Chinas bluff has been completely called and there's sod all they can do about it without creating a major incident.
As Kenny once said "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run...."

[Jimbuna]

I'm wondering how big that gas field is and are China willing to risk an armed conflict to protect it

[TarJak]

Maybe in a few years when Taiwan looks like being secured.

[Skybird]

Chinese interceptors scrambled to identify 2 US surveillance and 10 Japanese EW and fighter aircraft.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25155605

Local civilian airlines comply with the Chinese demands. Which definitely is the wrong signal, I think, it sets a precedence for accepting territorial claims that the Chinese in the future can fall back to by saying: "But if you disagree with our claims, why have you accepted our rules in the past?" The correct answer would have been to either ignore the Chinese demand and have an international cooperation that secures protection of civilian flights in the Chinese zone of aggression by Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Taiwanese and American fighters, or to fly around the area - and ban all Chinese carriers to fly to and land in those countries that refuse to enter that zone.

But in the long term, signalling obedience and compliance will prove to have been the worst possible choice, I'm sure. I cannot help myself, I just do not believe in showing weakness, indifference and signs of intimidation being wise. Never.

[Admiral Halsey]

It's times like this when we could use Teddy Roosevelt's Big Stick policy.

[Skybird]

Did he buy his stick paying in cash or via credit card?

[Jimbuna]

Let us hope no pilot gets trigger happy from either side because this could escalate in a matter of minutes if not seconds.

[Oberon]

Catch-22 for airlines, if they ignore the new airspace rules then they get accused of putting passengers lives at risk, but if they obey them they get called weak and subservient.

It's not particularly likely the Chinese would shoot down an airliner, but a military patrol aircraft...well, I doubt they'd gun for a US aircraft, but they might try their luck with a Japanese EW aircraft, perhaps create another Hainan Island Incident.

[Jimbuna]

The NK once shot down a civilian airliner so why should the Chinese be different?

I wouldn't want to put that to the test.

[Skybird]

The carriers should therefore refuse to fly there and their homenations should ban Chinese carriers operating in their airspaces.

The Japanese operate fighters in the region now, not only EW. The Japanese flights shadowed by the Chinese, were 4 recce planes and 6 fighters.

The Chinese have seen recent political changes, that include a party-wanted drive in nationalism. They feel themselves strong enough, maybe they are drunk of themselves, but still they feel themselves strong. Recall the sky plane jncident from 7 or 8 years ago. Their self-confidence has not shrunk since then. And their ambitions in the region are such that they cannot accept to come out second in the race for those sea areas.

I fear it is a confrontation that most likely is set to turn hot one day.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The carriers should therefore refuse to fly there and their homenations should ban Chinese carriers operating in their airspaces.

The Japanese operate fighters in the region now, not only EW. The Japanese flights shadowed by the Chinese, were 4 recce planes and 6 fighters.

The Chinese have seen recent political changes, that include a party-wanted drive in nationalism. They feel themselves strong enough, maybe they are drunk of themselves, but still they feel themselves strong. Recall the sky plane jncident from 7 or 8 years ago. Their self-confidence has not shrunk since then. And their ambitions in the region are such that they cannot accept to come out second in the race for those sea areas.

I fear it is a confrontation that most likely is set to turn hot one day.

Whilst I agree, the problem being it could escalate into something totally out of proportion to what is at stake and give the Chinese the opportunity to assert themselves in an area where 'united' opposition could deal them a telling blow.