The Coup D'etat of November 1963

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The Witness

Some ran up the hills, some ran toward the building where Lee was

Why?

Could it have something to do with echoes?
(an untrained ear can't say exactly from where a shot is from)
I'm talking about a shot in a street were there's skyscrapers nearby
(I know much about this, but only in Swedish and the google translate is no good)

Markus

Possible. Also possible that they wanted to get away from a place where shots were being fired.

[Buddahaid]

Exactly. It's also possible Oswald just got lucky and got in a good shot. It happens you know.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I think this skilled sniper makes a lot of sense.

Except for the number of facts he gets wrong, such as that Oswald did not fail his shooting in boot camp; he qualified Sharpshooter. Later he was downrated to Marksman. The writer also either ignores or was unaware of the fact that Oswald had been going to ranges and practicing. A lot.

He also gets the facts wrong about the change in the motorcade route. As we have already shown, there was no change. Elm street was the planned route all along.

He also ignores or is unaware of the many recreations done in the intervening years, recreation in which experienced shooters, but not trained snipers, successfully made the three shots with little or no problems.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by privateer

(And a Monkey just flew out of my butt!)

Pictures or it didn't happen.









On second thought, no pictures please. I'll take your word for it.

A Mil adjustment to most scopes is a 1/4 inch at 100 yards.
(One of mine is 1/8th inch at 100 yards )

The shot was done at less. Right around 88+ yards?
On a slow moveing target where the line of travel is known.
By a somewhat better then average shooter.
Oswald could have pulled it off.

Only thing I dispute is the shot from the front as the kill shot.
I see the shot from the back as the kill shot.

Do I believe Oswald was the only shooter?
I'm not convinced no.
I believe there may have been another shooter but not in front of JFK.
Above Oswald would be the position I would take knowiing he was to be the patsy.
Another thing about Snipers? If one tells you they never missed?
They are liars of the first degree or ain't been in the field.

[Sailor Steve]

As with many things, I neither believe nor disbelieve. I certainly believe Oswald could have made those shots. I also realize that it could have been a conspiracy by any number of different people or groups. Anything is possible.

I simply refuse to listen to people telling me they know this or that, and that I have to believe their version. If they want me to believe, they'd best come up with some real evidence. So far I haven't seen any.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Pictures or it didn't happen.

A recreation for the family aspect.

[Father Goose]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Here's a question: How do they know for sure which shot missed?

It is my understanding that they don't know for sure. In my post, I was giving Oswald the benefit of the doubt thinking that he improved on each shot.

If Oswald missed the limousine on his second shot, what is the probability that he would have made the necessary corrections to hit the president in the back of the head on his third shot?

And if his first shot missed the entire limousine, a rather large automobile and at the closest distance of the three shots, what is the probability that he would have improved in a few seconds to hit the president directly in the back of the head?

I suppose the point I was trying to make to BubbleHead is he doesn't necessarily have to have all the answers to prove a conspiracy, all one has to look at is Oswald's ability to make the three shots.

I respect your opinion if you don't think it was a conspiracy as I don't know for sure. My opinion is it is a very low percentage that Oswald acted alone. But possible? Yes.

If you want to go the path of "Don't know for sure"?
Lincoln's assassination is full of loop holes.
Could Booth have been a decoy and the shot was fired from elsewhere?
Say his BodyGuard?

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Father Goose

I suppose the point I was trying to make to BubbleHead is he doesn't necessarily have to have all the answers to prove a conspiracy, all one has to look at is Oswald's ability to make the three shots.

But in making wild claims as he is famous for, he should be able to back up some of his claims with some evidence. So far he's shown nothing other than JFKs backward head movement which leaves unexplained the 6mm entry wound in the back of Kennedy's head. A piece of evidence that he tried to discredit by saying that the autopsy photo showing the hole was falsified. But accepting other photos of the same set as factual.

As privateer so eloquently put it Occams Razor.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by privateer

A recreation for the family aspect.

More housework for Nancy Lady

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Father Goose

It is my understanding that they don't know for sure. In my post, I was giving Oswald the benefit of the doubt thinking that he improved on each shot.

My further question is how he would know if any given shot missed? He might have assumed a shot that he didn't see hit could have gone through a seatback and floorboard, or through the dash. My point here is that he might not have known whether he missed the president by an inch or the limousine by twenty feet. Unless he could see precisely where the errant bullet went he would have no idea how to correct for it. He may not even have been aware that one of his shots missed at all.

I respect your opinion if you don't think it was a conspiracy as I don't know for sure. My opinion is it is a very low percentage that Oswald acted alone. But possible? Yes.

Your post might have crossed with mine, which is only two above it. My opinion isn't that I don't think there was a conspiracy. My only opinion is that I don't know, and I don't accept statements as factual from people who don't know either. I also don't believe in percentages. Did Oswald act alone? I don't know. Was there a conspiracy? I don't know. I don't even care. If evidence comes out to prove there was a conspiracy, all the people like Bubblehead are going to crow "See? I told you so!", and people like me will say "Hmm. It's nice to see some real proof." If evidence comes out that proves there was no conspiracy, all the conspiracy theorists will be saying it was contrived, and proves nothing, and people like me will say "Hmm. Maybe now we can get on with our lives." This is the difference between the honest researcher and the True Believer. My only stake in all this is to understand the truth, and hope to find out what that truth may be. I have no opinion one way or the other, and can only wait for some real evidence to turn up that proves one story or the other. Other than that I don't really care.

[Dread Knot]

My problem with multiple shooters is how could the conspirators guarantee the only bullets or fragments found would be the ones traceable to Oswald's weapon to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world? How could they guarantee there wouldn't be wounds that don't track back to the sixth floor SE corner window of the Depository?

That is why the conspiracy theorists find it necessary to enlarge the conspiracy. With all the wounds, bullets and fragments only pointing to Oswald's rifle from Oswald's vantage place, to make things fit they must conjecture a larger conspiracy to alter the wounds, alter the x-rays and photos, and plant or substitute (or both!) bullets and fragments that point to Oswald from the originals which, they believe, would point elsewhere.

And of course, since the Z-film doesn't show this supposed damage to the head that should be evident from a knoll shot, it too has now become part of the evidence that has been altered, they argue.

As always, everyone has to be in on it. Doctors, nurses, forensic investigators etc. No Occams razor here.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

More housework for Nancy Lady

She likes Monkeys but I don't have any flying outta my bum just now.

All the evidence here points me to the fact that ALIENS did it!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by privateer

She likes Monkeys but I don't have any flying outta my bum just now.

All the evidence here points me to the fact that ALIENS did it!

Most definitely