Subsim front page article that pissed me off

[August]

Originally Posted by areo16

Well, we recognize everything else from who it belongs to. If Mike uses a hammer that belongs to John, then Mike is using John's hammer. It is not Mike's hammer unless John says Mike can keep the hammer. No, Mike is just using the hammer.

The Nazi's were using the sub, but the sub belonged to Germany. And the Nazis were able to use it because the Nazi's controlled Germany.

It's John's hammer and it's Germany's sub.

The nazis ordered the submarine built, they marked it with their symbols, they sent it on it's mission of destruction to foreign shores and it was used to kill people in the name of national socialism. You can attempt to deny this with silly hammer comparisons but others will continue to call it what it really was, a nazi sub.

[areo16]

Originally Posted by August

The nazis ordered the submarine built, they marked it with their symbols, they sent it on it's mission of destruction to foreign shores and it was used to kill people in the name of national socialism. You can attempt to deny this with silly hammer comparisons but others will continue to call it what it really was, a nazi sub.

Military units are always defined by what country they belong to. What nationality the machine or soldier belongs to. There was never a country called "Nazi", or "Naziland". Those subs were German, and they have always been German. Nazis might have ordered "most" of them built, but some were not ordered built by Nazis. The nazis you are talking about are German. They are all German. The Nazi Government was German. It is all German. That sub was controlled by Nazis, for the most part, but it was a German sub. Nazi is not a nationality. A Nazi government is a government that is national socialist, it does not necessarily mean that it is the German national socialist government called the Third Reich.

There may be more Nazi governments in the future (hopefully not). But to say that the sub is Nazi is simply incorrect. The sub belonged to Germany, which happened to be controlled by Nazis.

[August]

Originally Posted by areo16

Military units are always defined by what country they belong to.

Says you. Apparently huffpost, myself and a whole lot of other people are fine with calling it a nazi sub.

[areo16]

Originally Posted by August

Says you. Apparently huffpost, myself and a whole lot of other people are fine with calling it a nazi sub.

I'm baffled by how a political ideology could own a war machine that is built for a nation's military. When another government takes over, will it still be a Nazi sub?

Did the whole military become Nazi just like this submarine? What distinguishes from something that is Nazi and something that is not Nazi? Do these weapons have party member numbers too?

[August]

Originally Posted by areo16

I'm baffled by how a political ideology could own a war machine that is built for a nation's military.

I am sorry you're baffled. I'm not.

When another government takes over, will it still be a Nazi sub?

No then it would have been a Bundeswehr sub.

Did the whole military become Nazi just like this submarine? What distinguishes from something that is Nazi and something that is not Nazi?

All part of the nazi war machine. That's good enough for me.

Do these weapons have party member numbers too?

What, a stamped nazi symbol on the weapon isn't enough for you?

[razark]

Originally Posted by areo16

Military units are always defined by what country they belong to. What nationality the machine or soldier belongs to.

Originally Posted by areo16

I'm baffled by how a political ideology could own a war machine that is built for a nation's military.

I hear all the time how US forces were battling communist forces in Korea and Vietnam. The Nazi army was also facing communist forces, armed with communist planes and communist rifles and communist tanks. Not to mention how Reagan faced down and ended the communist threat. It's not limited to "Nazi", and it's a perfectly valid way of describing equipment used by Germany during the early 1940s.

[August]

Originally Posted by razark

I hear all the time how US forces were battling communist forces in Korea and Vietnam. The Nazi army was also facing communist forces, armed with communist planes and communist rifles and communist tanks. Not to mention how Reagan faced down and ended the communist threat. It's not limited to "Nazi", and it's a perfectly valid way of describing equipment used by Germany during the early 1940s.

This ^

[CaptainHaplo]

My grandfather on my mothers side was a Nazi. He had a wife and three children. He also had a gun to his head and was asked if he was a member or not. Had he chosen to answer wrongly, his family would have had to suffer through the final bit of the war without him, as a significant part of his brains would have been exiting his cranium immediately.

Many so called "Nazi's" did not believe in National Socialism or support Hitler. They still were members, by force.

We have no knowledge if those aboard were members of the party or not. It does not matter, for they died in service to a government that itself claimed the title "Nazi". That does not dishonor their sacrifice, but the context should also not be whitewashed, else we run the risk of whitewashing many actions and atrocities committed in the name of "the State".

Hammer Time!!